The Guardian article didn't "edit" or "delete" the rest of the quote, it accurately summarized it:
When asked if the suspect had any affiliation with Islamic State, the FBI assistant agent in charge, Ron Hopper, said: “We do have suspicions that the individual may have leanings toward that ideology.” Though when pushed as to what led him to believe that, he clarified that all possibilities were being investigated.
"We do have suggestions that that individual may have leanings toward that particular ideology," FBI Assistant Special Agent-in-Charge Ron Hopper said. "But right now we can't say definitively, so we're still running everything to ground."
Personally I'm not seeing a huge difference between, "all possibilities were being investigated" and "we're still running everything to ground"
I was looking for facts
So was I, and the biggest fact that leaped out at me was the fact that the FBI was going much further than it ordinarily would in suggesting a motive at this point in an investigation of this type, and that a logical inference from that was that they had some very strong evidence to support that motive that they weren't ready to publicly release.
I hope being right makes you feel better.
Not at all. I would have vastly preferred that we not have this to talk about today.
Go to hell wes, and take Trump and all your little Trumpanzees with you. You're a fucking ignorant asshole, and I regret that I gave you far too much of my time and my patience. Even worm eaten, my brain can run circles around yours.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
Not at all. I would have vastly preferred that we not have this to talk about today.
I know. As you may have noticed, I'm in a very bad mood today (again). Even the light and love from the Tonys last night (an awards show I would never watch, but I adore Lin-Manuel Miranda, and the show was absolutely incredible -- best awards show I have ever seen) couldn't keep the anger at bay.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
Omar Mateen's imam says he was known at the mosque for being aggressive
The imam of the the Islamic Center of Fort Pierce, where Omar Mateen prayed four days a week, said there were rumours that Mateen was very aggressive, but that he was unusually quiet at the mosque and did not appear to have a single close friend in the community.
Syed Shafeeq Rahman, a physician by profession, said he had known the gunman since he was an unruly child running around the mosque.
Mateen was a wild boy, and an imposing young man due to his muscular physique, but Dr Rahman said he had changed in recent years.
"When he was a kid at the Mosque he used to run here and run there and make a lot of problems. Since he was adult, we don't have any problem with him in the mosque. He just comes quietly, prays, and leaves," he said.
"He was quiet in the mosque which was good. Because of the muscular thing and the rumours here and there that he was very aggressive," Dr Rahman continued. "But he might have something in his mind, some anger or some psychological thing."
Dr Rahman said when he heard the news from Orlando, 90 minutes to the West, he prayed that gunman would not be a Muslim, and was shocked when it turned out to be, "not only a Muslim, a Muslim from here."
Dr Rahman said he had not feared Mateen could be radicalised, because he had worked security and gone to the police academy.
"He was working security, he was working for the police department, so we assumed there was a background check. Why would we think anything like that? We were thinking that he might be a safety factor for us," he said.
"Our impression was the family was very pro-American, that they were maybe more aligned with American than us," he added.
Despite the fact that another young man who had visited the mosque on occasion became America's first suicide bomber in Syria in 2014, Dr Rahman said the teaching at the mosque was peaceful and moderate.
"This is nothing that the Mosque is teaching them," he said. "They get it from the Internet."
"It is not written in the religion that you go and kill 50 people in the middle of the night. So if he blames religion for it, he has to explain it- where do you get it from?"
Sandy Hook changed the game for me forever (and shame on me that it took that long). But when your 9-year-old, who lives in the next town over from Newtown, and has to "shelter in place" because someone saw what looked like a person carrying a gun, the week after the shootings, and comes home crying that he doesn't want to die, you can never be the same.
Yes, he's my nephew but that makes no difference, he and his brother are the children of my heart, if not my body.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
Well Guin, I can recall hiding under our school desks (or in the hall depending on the level of the alert or school drill) to avoid being killed by the atom bomb the Soviets were going to drop on us any moment (this was especially hammered home during the Cuban missile crisis); our school even had a fallout shelter in the basement with food and water in 55 gallon olive drab drums and we toured it each year). This sort of fear is, unfortunately, a part of the modern world. And while I don't think preparedness is a bad thing (nor do I think a reexamination of our laws is bad either), I do think the fear mongering is uncalled for. Face it, the chances of your nephews actually being harmed in a school shooting were about the same as us being incinerated in the nuclear blast, but "they" needed to whip up the fear to a level where, like your nephews, many of us saw death as a very real threat. Orwell would be proud.
Donald Trump reiterated his controversial call for a ban on Muslims entering the United States and claimed the shooting was the type of terrorism he had predicted for the country. He also criticized Clinton for not calling out the shooter in the attack for his links to "radical Islam."
Clinton fought back against Trump by telling TODAY's Savannah Guthrie, "From my perspective, it matters what we do, not what we say." She later added, "To me, radical jihadism, radical Islamism, I think they mean the same thing. I'm happy to say either."
But she said Trump failed to understand the issue at hand.
"All this talk and demagogy and rhetoric is not going to solve the problem. I'm not going to demonize and demagogue and declare war on an entire religion. That's just plain dangerous and it plays into ISIS's hands," she said.
Don't see anything to really disagree with Hillary about there...
I am VERY concerned that this incident is going to play into Trump's hands and boost his support. I am hoping that people will finally see through his toxic routine and see the complete disconnect between the problem, (radical Islamic terrorism) and Drumpf's poisonous and counter-productive "solutions"...
Even if you believe, (as I certainly do) that our current President has had a woefully wrong-headed and inadequate approach to the whole set of challenges presented by the Islamo-facists, the solution is NOT Donald Trump...
I viewed some of the TV news about this massacre with my ex when I picked up my daughter for a luncheon date yesterday. When I saw the shooter's name I said there was no doubt a Jihadist component to it. My ex said, no, that all news reports said it was the work of a (self-loathing?) homophobe, with no ties to terrorism.
I was accused of being a racist reactionary but I maintained too many people were not reading between the lines and that authorities never reveal most of what they know until all the dust has settled. (Interdepartmental and interagency communication and cooperation are still severely lacking and no group wants to be embarrassed being caught with their pants down.) My daughter and I then left for our always rewarding luncheon date.
When I dropped my daughter off a few hours later the news was reporting that ISIL did, in fact, acknowledge having a hand in the killings and that Omar Mateen was most likely a radicalized, homegrown, Islamicist, and with an already known suspicious background. I was certainly not surprised.
I can state this as a fact -- this will not be the last ISIL inspired attack. Most likely it's the tip of the "isisberg." Soft targets will continue to be their best tactic. Welcome to the new normal. Next!
“In a world whose absurdity appears to be so impenetrable, we simply must reach a greater degree of understanding among us, a greater sincerity.”
Orlando shooter reportedly traveled to Saudi Arabia twice for a religious pilgrimage
The Orlando nightclub gunman made two trips to Saudi Arabia between 2011 and 2012 for the Muslim religious pilgrimage known as Umrah, NBC reported Monday.
A US official told CNN's Jim Sciutto that the gunman also traveled to the United Arab Emirates around that time.
"Orlando shooter traveled to Saudi Arabia and UAE in 2011-12, US official tells me," Sciutto tweeted. " Saudi Arabia interior ministry adds that he went for the Umrah, the lesser religious pilgrimage that can take place any time of year."
The terrorist's father has said that he doesn't think he was motivated by religion, but dad apparently is a Taliban supporter who ain't wrapped too tight himself:
Seddique Mateen had himself become embroiled in controversy as the host of the “Durand Jirga Show” on a channel called Payam-e-Afghan, which broadcasts from California. In it, the elder Mateen speaks in the Dari language on a variety of political subjects.
Dozens of videos are posted on a channel under Seddique Mateen’s name on YouTube. A phone number and post office box that are displayed on the show were traced back to the Mateen home in Florida. Mateen also owns a nonprofit organization under the name Durand Jirga, which is registered in Port St. Lucie, Fla.
In one video, the elder Mateen expresses gratitude toward the Afghan Taliban, while denouncing the Pakistani government.
“Our brothers in Waziristan, our warrior brothers in [the] Taliban movement and national Afghan Taliban are rising up,” he said. “Inshallah the Durand Line issue will be solved soon.”
It is unclear if his statements ever attracted the attention of the FBI.
The Durand Line was drawn as a demarcation of British and Afghan spheres of influence in 1893. The historical line is a source of conflict for members of the Pashtun ethnic group, whose homeland straddles the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Just hours before the Orlando shooting, Seddique Mateen posted a video on a Facebook page called “Provisional Government of Afghanistan — Seddique Mateen.” In it, he seems to be pretending to be Afghanistan’s president, and he orders the arrest of an array of Afghan political figures.
“I order national army, national police and intelligence department to immediately imprison Karzai, Ashraf Ghani, Zalmay Khalilzad, Atmar, and Sayyaf. They are against our countrymen, and against our homeland,” he says, while dressed in army fatigues.
I would think there's little doubt that the attack has a religious component--islam teaches that homosexuality is wrong, as does fundamental christianity and, I believe, Judaism, and he appeared to internalize this message. However, whether it is ISIL/ISIS inspired is a tougher question. Even if he is an avowed supporter of ISIL/ISIS, is everything he does inspired by this one factor of his personality? I don't think so; to me he seems more like a jerk who is striking out at gays for a mixture of reasons including his religious beliefs of what is right and what is wrong. He attacked on his own using weapons he acquired himself, not as part of any cell or other group. More may be revealed as time goes on, but I see this more as an attack based on an irrational hatred for gays rather than striking at the core of the USA.
Guinevere wrote:Go to hell wes, and take Trump and all your little Trumpanzees with you. You're a fucking ignorant asshole, and I regret that I gave you far too much of my time and my patience. Even worm eaten, my brain can run circles around yours.
Sorry to bring this up again but that shitbomb post by Wes deserves a response worthy
of Jaraxle on a bad day.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.
Ahhh, CP, you just made me laugh for the first time in about 30 hours. Merci.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
Whatever the man's motives, what he has done is a horrible and evil crime against humanity. These dead and wounded, along with their grieving friends and families, are all bearers of the image of God.
Obama said this: But it’s a reminder that regardless of race, religion, faith or sexual orientation, we’re all Americans, and we need to be looking after each other and protecting each other at all times in the face of this kind of terrible act. In that, he is exactly correct.
I wish there was something I could do to materially help those affected by this crime. Giving blood here doesn't (somehow) seem responsive. Is there anything?
Incidentally, the OT (Deut.) does call for the stoning of homosexuals but (of course) that superseded by the gospel of Jesus; it should form absolutely no part of any Christian belief system today. Certainly, transgender people are not spoken of in the Bible and it is fundamentally wrong for Christians to be negative toward them.
Some 600 years after Jesus, the prophet of Islam wrote repeatedly that homosexuality was to be punished by death, and that remains the official position of certain Islamic countries today. It is a basic tenet of Islam, nowhere contraindicated in any of the scriptural works of the faith. I wish very much that all the Islamic congregations in the USA would send their vociferous condemnations to the Islamic world of Saudi Arabia and Iran to name but two.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts
MajGenl.Meade wrote:... Incidentally, the OT (Deut.) does call for the stoning of homosexuals but (of course) that superseded by the gospel of Jesus; it should form absolutely no part of any Christian belief system today. Certainly, transgender people are not spoken of in the Bible and it is fundamentally wrong for Christians to be negative toward them.
Meade, there does appear to be some fundamental biblical interpretation about transgender or transsexual behavior. Some of your christian brethren might strongly disagree with your personal belief system. http://www.revelation.co/2015/07/15/wha ... anssexual/
“In a world whose absurdity appears to be so impenetrable, we simply must reach a greater degree of understanding among us, a greater sincerity.”
Thanks, Ray. Good link (well, bad but you know what I mean). I find the argument of the writer to be a feeble construction, based on the English language of the KJV. I don't find "cross-dressing" to be the same thing as gender errors.
He obviously glosses over the fact that Adam and Eve were created before the Fall - an event which elsewhere he would argue corrupted all of mankind, overlaying the image of God with the image of Adam (as is clear in Genesis 3). That God created them man and woman is as irrelevant as the fact that he created them sinless (but with the capacity to sin). That changed!
I reject his use of the English word "effeminate". This examination of the Greek word is far more relevant (but the writer of the linked piece probably has no knowledge of it):
Nor effeminate - μαλακοὶ malakoi. This word occurs in Mat_11:8, and Luk_7:25, where it is applied to clothing, and translated “soft raiment;” that is, the light, thin garments worn by the rich and great. It occurs nowhere else in the New Testament except here. Applied to morals, as it is here, it denotes those who give themselves up to a soft, luxurious, and indolent way of living; who make self-indulgence the grand object of life; who can endure no hardship, and practice no self-denial in the cause of duty and of God. The word is applied in the classic writers to the Cinaedi, the Pathics, or Catamites; those who are given up to wantonness and sensual pleasures, or who are kept to be prostituted to others. Diog. Laer. Luk_7:5, Luk_7:4. Xenoph. Mem. Luk_3:7. 1. Ovid Fast. 4:342. The connection here seems to demand such an interpretation, as it occurs in the description of vices of the same class - sensual and corrupt indulgences - It is well known that this vice was common among the Greeks - and particularly prevailed at Corinth.
I do not at all concede that persons with genetic errors are equal to those given over to sensual and corrupt indulgences. Nor do I accept that this is "my personal belief system".
Last edited by MajGenl.Meade on Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts
MajGenl.Meade wrote:... Incidentally, the OT (Deut.) does call for the stoning of homosexuals but (of course) that superseded by the gospel of Jesus; it should form absolutely no part of any Christian belief system today. Certainly, transgender people are not spoken of in the Bible and it is fundamentally wrong for Christians to be negative toward them.
Meade, there does appear to be some fundamental biblical interpretation about transgender or transsexual behavior. Some of your christian brethren might strongly disagree with your personal belief system. http://www.revelation.co/2015/07/15/wha ... anssexual/
We Christians are under the new testament not the old testament. We are commanded to love our neighbors, to be slow to anger and help the poor; we are not instructed to stone homosexuals. Jesus stopped the stoning of the woman caught in the act of adultery.
Soon, I’ll post my farewell message. The end is starting to get close. There are many misconceptions about me, and before I go, to live with my ancestors on the steppes, I want to set the record straight.
