Here you go Lo...

[liberty]

LOL Bringing up issues that I knew would be unresolved with you was very inappropriate of me and I apologizeunreservedly for that.

I am proud of you Hen that is the mark of a superior person; the ability to recognize a mistake and the courage to try to correct it.

[alice]

Seriously, very well gents; how else do I prepare folks for the frustration?

What folks ya be preparin Lo?

Just curious...

Anybody, I tell my full story to.

I may write a book some day, it seems to be that unusual.

Anybody, I tell my full story to.

Why they gonna be frustrated?

Always the curious...

Keld, generally it's because they be controlling, and nothing frustrates the controlling more than the uncontrollable.

I hope those quotes all worked out.

I have no idea of the background of this other than what I'm reading in this thread, so maybe I'm missing something. My understanding of this exchange is that you believe anyone you tell your full life story to will become frustrated, and you therefore try to prepare them for that frustration when you are telling then your life story. The reason you believe they will be frustrated is because you believe that the people you tell your life story to are very controlling. You believe their frustration stems from the fact that you believe yourself to be uncontrollable.

If that's a reasonable approximate summary, then the question I would put is:
Why 'choose' such people to tell your life story to?

Who you tell your personal dramas to is 100% your own choice. If I was looking for someone to privately download my dramas to, I wouldn't choose someone that I believed was somehow controlling or in any other way inappropriate to listen to my problems. I wouldn't 'choose' anyone that I thought I had to somehow 'prepare' for what I thought would be their eventual frustration at my responses to them. Instead I would 'choose' someone whose wisdom and advice I respected, and who I felt enough of a rapport with that I could feel I would benefit from my discussions with them.
That's not to say that you have to follow every bit of advice given to you - but you have to believe enough in the person to believe that they will give you sound and rational advice. And if for whatever reason you don't follow their advice, you have to be comfortable enough with the person to explain why other actions may suit your circumstances better than the advice they gave. And then you can follow the other actions and discuss with them the results. If you have 'chosen' well, the person will be happy knowing that you are trying to take actions to resolve your issues, regardless of whether it was as a result of their direct advice. If you have 'chosen' well, then the people you tell your dramas to will be able to celebrate with you as you take steps to resolve your issues.

If you believe yourself to be uncontrollable, then my presumption of what you are trying to say is that you want to be free to follow what you want to do in life, and work out your own issues. That's a good, strong and independent attitude. However I would query why you then tell people your story in a manner that makes it seem you want assistance resolving those issues. You would appear to be just setting them, and you, up for frustration if people feel obliged to offer advice and you are already convinced that you will work things out for yourself.

I've probably, as I said, missed something crucial in my understanding of this, because it's based purely on my interpretation of the parts I quoted above.

.... sorry if I'm intruding in a private issue. The above just genuinely confused me. I can bow back out again with apologies...

[Sean]

It was a private issue that was made public by Lo herself Alice so I wouldn't worry.

You also raise some very good points...

[MajGenl.Meade]

Well said, Alice.

I look at the recent posts and see what I regard as fairly 'typical' exchanges of people unwilling to let go, tossing paraffin on the fire and complaining that it won't go out. Even Gob (sorry mate) has, I hear, got Lo on ignore but rather like a guy on a Fast starts nibbling cupcakes he can't, just can't, really truly actually "ignore".

I got into trouble some years back with (a poster I enjoy) to whom I suggested that some useless kindergarten "my daddy can beat up your daddy" exchanges with an obvious moron reflected poorly on his ability to treat his opponent with the deserved silence of contempt. So I don't think I'd like to have Lo, Sean, Hen and/or Gob lighting into me over this.

I guess if they want to squabble over nothing at all it's a free decision and therefore I should mind my own - get stuffed - STFU - and otherwise light my own blue touchpaper and retire. Oh and I'm a d***head as well. That should cover any need for response

Meade

edit to add "I'm a f***wit too" in case the good sister is around

[Sean]

LMFAO

[Reality Bytes]

Lo I'm gonna wade in here as well you've known me a long old time now - I have always considered you a friend albeit confined to online. The problem with self fulfilling prophecies is that they usually do self fulfil lol I should know I can occasionally manage to do that to myself when I want - the only person who can break that cycle is ones self, I realise that sounds trite but its true, no one can do it for you, no guru or counsellor or friend can ever make someone do what they aren't ready or don't want to do. Changing thought processes, defenses and behaviours learned over a lifetime of experiences is bloody hard and it is never achieved overnight - it is also tough and frustrating for people who care about you to accept and to have to deal with. By saying to people that they will find you frustrating and eventually start to hate you is actually a way of you setting the conditions for any friendship or help that might come your way and an easy out when things start to get hard, you can fall back on it being their fault for not being able to handle you whilst at the same time you can tell yourself that you gave them fair warning and reaffirm that your issues really ARE that messed up and hard to deal with and thus gives you yet another reinforcement that theres no point trying to fix things. Nothing I have said so far should be news to you Lo even armchair psychs could and no doubt have been telling you this.

There's another element to it as well - the challenge - and in seeking out the kind of people you do its the challenge that perhaps is most in play though how aware you are of it only you can say. I'm sure I've spoken about my experience with someone who "challenged" me in a similar way a few times both on the old CSB and elsewhere - it's now 6 or more years on from the painful end of that friendship and it STILL hurts and I still miss having her friendship in my life, but the pain of having that friendship, the sheer frustration, the walking on eggshells, the always always having to pick her up and listen to yet another apology for her hurting me....that I can and do live without and gratefully so. Even though I knew what she was doing, even though I saw the challenge for what it was (an attempt to manipulate) and even though she said very similar things and prophesied I would end up hating her. See I love a challenge lol Saint RB thats me (not) I was not going to be the person that "couldn't handle her" I was not going to be the person that "ended up hating her" no matter how bloody frustrated I got no matter how much she hurt me I would accept it and hang in there cos I wasn't going to be just another person who failed her .......... and yet I did .... I truly hated her at the end and it took years for me to let go of that and forgive her and stop beating myself up for failing and for having fallen for it in the first damn place lol

You said

Keld, generally it's because they be controlling, and nothing frustrates the controlling more than the uncontrollable.

see that to me reads as a challenge, it also reads as something you are proud of i.e. that you are "uncontrollable" its also an excuse all wrapped up in one neat little sentence.

Lo theres nothing wrong with talking to people about your stuff, but you set yourself up for failure every time and that IS frustrating to people who care about you, you are reaching out but not giving anyone a fair chance to help you, if all you want is a listener - find someone who doesnt care about you personally, some one not invested in you - a counsellor or shrink - and find one that suits you, be single bloody minded, research the different types of counselling and then test them out (see if they offer a free trial session) counselling is not "one size fits all" I have a feeling Rogerian would be the way to go for you if you are ready to change - but if you are not ready then wait until you are. Have friends as friends Lo try and keep a mental do not cross line by all means off load about the little things but save the big stuff for people who wont try and fix you or help you in ways they are not qualified or distanced enough to do. Friends are important Lo, dont over load them and then they won't let you down.

[dales]

Ah, the Rogerian approach.....



Good read if one REALLY wants to take the journey.

[loCAtek]

ThX Alice, the answer to your good question is- I've been out talking to lot of people; due to the alcoholism and what it stemmed from. Some folks are willing to listen, some only to a certain degree and I respect that. Bringing up the issues I had last year, in a continuing monthly effort to 'fix me', was not appreciated and I didn't find that supportive, but controlling. I won't be controlled, that's what I mean when i say I'm uncontrollable. Now, that I know that, (I was in fact, aware of it months ago. Tried to ask once again, don't try to fix me ) (Yes, Gob months ago, ask to see email called 'In case you missed it') I don't feel hate, but I won't be manipulated either. I can hope the apology was sincere, and this campaign ends.

ThX all.

[Lord Jim]

Good points Alice and Real....

Meade, there's something I've been meaning to ask you....

Your Avatar...Is that you?

If so there's something I need to pass along...

Mariana Faithful called....


She wants her hat back.

[Rick]

I've been out talking to lot of people; due to the alcoholism and what it stemmed from.

Sometimes it's just a matter of having picked up the wrong tool.

Instead of an eye glass one mighta shoulda oughta have picked up a mirror.

There was this person that complained about other drivers every time they got in their vehicle. Then one day someone rode with them...

[The Hen]

I am proud of you Hen that is the mark of a superior person; the ability to recognize a mistake and the courage to try to correct it.

Cheers Liberty. My error came after weeks of baiting and my surgery. I shouldn't have done it, but I was in a bad place at that time and requests to cease and desist were falling in deaf ears. I wanted to bring to Lo's attention the fact that if you ignore things, they won't necessarily go away.

When Lo had initially asked for advice on therapy and assistence with areas of her life that were pear-shaped I had designed a number of exercises that would work at allowing her to move o and let go.

I baited her by reminding her of those exercises and her lack of commitment to change.

My bad. I accept that. Change is not something Lo wants.

[oldr_n_wsr]

Jeez I must have missed something, or at least haven't gotten to that thread yet. All I can say is that LoCaTek admitted she was an alcoholic months (maybe years) before I admitted the same malady. Her admission came on the old CSB and mine came here and on another forum pretty much at the same time. I wish LoCaTek all the best in the world and hope she gets and remains sober. As far as the rest of this shit in this thread, I have no comment.

[Gob]

Lots of good advice here.

Here's some more; if you don't want to change, and don't want advice, don't tell people your problems.

[The Hen]

You were 100% right on that one Gob.

I should have taken your advice in the first place and not bothered becoming involved when my input was requested.

oldr, this is not a thread about Lo being an alcoholic.

[The Hen]

Lo my apology is sincere.

You can actually discuss it with me instead of other people.

Is there anything you feel you need to add in this situation, or are you all good now?

[loCAtek]

LOL Yes, you can go and re-read the answer(s) I gave to your initial query, 'What did I want from you?' There you will see at first, foremost and at many different times, up to six, (seven if you include the above) where I said explicitly, "Don't try to fix me, it will just frustrate you..." just listen, I just want a friend. That you didn't want to any longer, I respected as I understood you had your own things to deal with, particularly after I sent you a condolence e-card after your assault. I honored our mutual agreement for seven months, did various other things for myself; and wondered why you kept trying to fix me once a month? I put it down to your stress. It bothered me, which didn't make me feel hate, but it got annoying when on the one hand you'd claim others lied about your family, but didn't seem to feel any qualms about exaggerating the supposed burden I put on you.

You can pick whichever resolution; we can discuss this offline; we can continue here; or you can stop trying to control me altogether; either/or I'm game for as I'm sure you weren't apologizing for getting caught being manipulative, but because you finally respect my clear statement, "Don't try to fix me."

With sincere hope this regains the trust I had in you.

Lo


PS - If not don't worry, I don't need you anymore.

[The Hen]

LOL Yes, you can go and re-read the answer(s) I gave to your initial query, 'What did I want from you?' There you will see at first, foremost and at many different times, up to six, (seven if you include the above) where I said explicitly, "Don't try to fix me, it will just frustrate you..." just listen, I just want a friend. That you didn't want to any longer, I respected as I understood you had your own things to deal with, particularly after I sent you a condolence e-card after your assault. I honored our mutual agreement for seven months, did various other things for myself; and wondered why you kept trying to fix me once a month? I put it down to your stress. It bothered me, which didn't make me feel hate, but it got annoying when on the one hand you'd claim others lied about your family, but didn't seem to feel any qualms about exaggerating the supposed burden I put on you.

Lo, you specifically asked for advise and help. I have your emails.

The listening request came after I began to attempt to get you over your childhood and mother issues. You do not want to get over your issues.

You can pick whichever resolution; we can discuss this offline; we can continue here; or you can stop trying to control me altogether; either/or I'm game for as I'm sure you weren't apologizing for getting caught being manipulative, but because you finally respect my clear statement, "Don't try to fix me."

If you don't want to be fixed, don't ask to be fixed.

What I was talking about was, now that I have apologised for sending you a PM after putting up with 3 months of baiting posts from you, are YOU going to change your approach as well? Or was this whole thread another one-sided exercise where one person apologises to you for your percieved injustice and you keep carrying on like a chop as usual?

I shouldn't have PMed you whilst I was just out of surgery and for that I am truly sorry.

[Gob]

Hmm... Lets think here..

A question for the membership.

If you thought someone based on the other side of the world were, and I quote; "trying to control you", would you send them 230 e-mails over a period of 3 months?* Or would you not bother with them?

Oooh.. tricky...




*this would be after their husband had become so sick of months the same behaviour from you, he had actually gone as far as to block your emails to him, and put you on "ignore" at Plan B.

[The Hen]

My "control" that is being complained about was my attempt to get Lo to take some positive steps for herself.

I was not aware that she was perfectly happy with her situation and did not want anything to change.

I did not realise that Lo likes complaining (a lot) to many people on the same topics (often).

I did not know it was not required to point out a few trees in her dense forest when she requested some arbor work done.

I should have simply done a Sybil.

Hen Fawlty: [on email] I know... I know... I know... Oh, I know!
Gob Fawlty: Then why is she telling you?

[loCAtek]

No, I didn't ask to be fixed, quite the contrary specifically stated as, "Don't try to fix me, it would only frustrate you" ...what part of that the first seven times didn't you understand? ...and not 230 LOL, more manipulative exaggeration, since when she done, I was done. No need for her at all.

Question: If you don't like the 'attention-seeking' you painted, why won't you go away?