Well it's official . . .

[Gob]

Still no excuse for gunning down beautiful wild creatures from a safe distance with powerful guns.

(Me and BSG and others are going to have to agree to disagree on this, I think)

[Long Run]

Someone has to limit the elk (and deer, etc.) populations. If that does not happen, then they overgrow and overeat, create chaos, and take to drinking (see definition of unmanageable). Hunting is a form of population management since the natural limitations do not exist any longer. And hunters for the most part, consume the animals they kill. As a vegetarian, you are not in favor of this personally, but it is actually humane and an ethical way to obtain food (at least as much so as an animal kept in a pen and then butchered).

[dales]

BSG wrote:

I ran through a few clips the other day;

Actually your pistol uses a magazine, firearms such as the M1 Garand used a stripper clip.

Otherwise...

Your choice of firearms is spot on.

[Gob]

Fair comment Long Run, though I would argue for state employed marksmen to cull the weaker specimens and not wholesale slaughter by anyone with a gun permit.

[loCAtek]

Well, you don't live there...

[BoSoxGal]

Elk ARE beautiful creatures, I agree.

They also provide a very healthy lean meat source.

The elk population in Montana is thriving and the number of tags that are issued yearly are intended by wildlife management officials to allow the herd to be managed appropriately, so that overpopulation doesn't occur.

I suspect that should I ever have an elk in my sights, I won't end up actually shooting it. I really just want the adventure of a hunt in the backcountry of Montana. Shhh, don't tell . . .

[quaddriver]

Fair comment Long Run, though I would argue for state employed marksmen to cull the weaker specimens and not wholesale slaughter by anyone with a gun permit.

Live in a country where deer are populous, or in a state where they are a menace...we kill more on our highways in pa, than most states do period. And it aint enuf. My 12 year old has 3 tags to fill. and it aint enuf. (and I wager he is better than most state employed marksmen.)

[quaddriver]

Elk are beautiful creatures, let them live.

smack one with a car and you will think its beautiful as it comes thru the windsheild.

[loCAtek]

'cha they don't have Elk in Australia.

[Gob]

Elk are beautiful creatures, let them live.

smack one with a car and you will think its beautiful as it comes thru the windsheild.

That point is so vacuous it defies belief. Can you please try to post something sensible for a change.

Yes vehicular deer accidents occur in the US, UK, New Zealand, Australia and other countries, people involved in the accidents would not be considering the beauty or not of the animal involved, did you have some sort of a point to make?

[Rick]

Gob critters like this left to breed without check will in fact breed themselves into starvation.

One only has to look to Michigan to see this.

There was a time that deer hunting was no longer allowed in MI the herd was almost decimated by slow starvation...

[Gob]

I agree Keld, that's why I have never argued against humane controlled culling. Just the granting of wholesale random slaughter by unqualified "hunters". (Whose hunting is just one step up from video game shooting)

I prefer to hunt with my camera myself.

[Rick]

I prefer to hunt with my camera myself.

I don't believe you are alone in that endeavor.

I'm a hunter and I don't support those that hunt outside the law, I am not above turning them in.

All they do is hurt those of us that actually do...

[BoSoxGal]

Gob, that's not a fair or accurate depiction of elk - or any game - hunting in Montana.

Most folks here have hunted for generations, and hunt together as families. Hunting elk, which live in the backcountry, requires a great deal of endurance. Hours - sometimes days - of walking, tracking the elk; then if one is lucky enough to get a kill, it takes a great deal of effort to remove the kill from the backcountry - elk aren't light. Meantime, the hunter runs the risk of encountering a grizzly or wolves in the process.

Everyone I know around here who hunts eats the meat - yes, if they are lucky enough to get a nice bull elk, they'll probably mount the rack, too. It's evidence of a hard won kill.

It's not a video game and most folks in these parts know their way around firearms.

There is no 'wholesale slaughter' going on. It's a criminal offense to kill & waste a game animal in Montana.

[Gob]

Fair enough, I bow to your superior knowledge...
Bugger...

[Liberty1]

Exactly BSG, well said.

Elk hunting is probably the most challenging hunt you can aspire to.

[BoSoxGal]

Fair enough, I bow to your superior knowledge...
Bugger...

I like winning the argument, but I'll concede: I doubt very much I could actually kill one myself, if I ever have the chance. I want to go along on the hunt, and mainly use my camera. I'll have a rifle with me to protect myself & my hunting partner against grizzly or wolves, as necessary.

I love game meat - I think properly prepared it's delicious, and it's much healthier than beef. Push to shove, though, I can't even kill the box elder beetles invading my office this fall - I doubt very much I'll ever kill anything with fur and warm brown eyes. Luckily, I know lots of men who love to hunt who are married to women who hate game meat - I'm expecting any day to get a mule deer doe from one of them. I'll pay to have it processed, take as much meat as will fit in my small freezer, then donate the rest to an Indian woman I know who is raising her 8 grandchildren.

[quaddriver]

Elk are beautiful creatures, let them live.

smack one with a car and you will think its beautiful as it comes thru the windsheild.

That point is so vacuous it defies belief. Can you please try to post something sensible for a change.

Yes vehicular deer accidents occur in the US, UK, New Zealand, Australia and other countries, people involved in the accidents would not be considering the beauty or not of the animal involved, did you have some sort of a point to make?

you dont hunt, you dont shoot, you dont even have elk in ANY country you have ever lived in (save imports to preserves) so you are in what position to question management policy?

Deer are not afraid of humans or their toys. I feed them apples from my hand in my backyard.

Elk are not afraid of humans or their toys. I have sat 30 feet from then on my running ATV and they could care less.

If you hit the former you will be damaged, or maybe die.

If you hit one of the latter you will die.

Speaking only from experience - something you do not have in this arena - our elk are concentrated in Elk county (!!!). the size of the herd and interaction are such that people who do pay attention to this, have determined they want them harassed, stalked and killed in a degree such that they migrate and stay in the wilds and away from the humans.

Shoot near a deer and it will leave the area for a day. shoot near an elk and it will leave for a month.

[Gob]

you dont hunt, you dont shoot, you dont even have elk in ANY country you have ever lived in (save imports to preserves) so you are in what position to question management policy?

I was a very keen hunter in my youth as I stated at the CSB many times, we have huntable animals including deer in Australia and the UK, as a person who can think (unlike you) I am able to express an opinion based on rational thought.

Deer are not afraid of humans or their toys. I feed them apples from my hand in my backyard.

Elk are not afraid of humans or their toys. I have sat 30 feet from then on my running ATV and they could care less.

That must make them really hard to hunt!! (Contrast your description with BSG's.)

If you hit the former you will be damaged, or maybe die.

If you hit one of the latter you will die.

Gosh thanks for that, I never would have guessed!

[quaddriver]

you dont hunt, you dont shoot, you dont even have elk in ANY country you have ever lived in (save imports to preserves) so you are in what position to question management policy?

I was a very keen hunter in my youth as I stated at the CSB many times, we have huntable animals including deer in Australia and the UK, as a person who can think (unlike you) I am able to express an opinion based on rational thought.

so I was right? you do not hunt, you do not shoot, and you have never seen an elk outside of zoo or tv. Would it not have been easier just to admit it?

Deer are not afraid of humans or their toys. I feed them apples from my hand in my backyard.

Elk are not afraid of humans or their toys. I have sat 30 feet from then on my running ATV and they could care less.

That must make them really hard to hunt!! (Contrast your description with BSG's.)

when montana gets the same population density of PA, the animals will react the same. actually thats not true, whitetails behave the same regardless. non-acclimated elk behave differently. but they lose that rather quickly.

Ps: they are NOT really hard to hunt. they are goddamned animals with poor marksmanship. the problem , with all animals is that they are not being thinned where we need them thinned.