Proof of Citizenship

[Lord Jim]

if you don't have either, check a box.

Well this is kind of odd....

Unless I'm missing it, nowhere on that website do I see any information as to what happens if you check that box....

I can't find anywhere where it says, "check this box and we'll assign you a number and you can vote". Conversely, I can't find anywhere where it says something like: "if you check this box, you will then be required to do X"

The website doesn't seem to say that checking the box will entitle you to vote, but it also doesn't say that checking the box will require you to follow some additional procedure.

I can't find anything about it on the form, in the instructions, in the site's FAQ....

Seems like a pretty significant oversight....

[Joe Guy]

Are you going to answer my question?

Again, what has Pennsylvania done to make voter registration more secure than California?

Ill take that as an admission that you know it wont work. given that the document says if there is a problem you will be expected to go to a service center, and it goes thru the trouble of listing said service centers.

Explain what the "problem" is that is created by checking the box that says you have neither an SSN or DL.

Why doesn't it say that if you don't have the above you will need to register in person?

You're claiming I'm wrong but still only have your opinion and the typical 'go out and find it yourself' attitude that makes everything questionable that you state as fact.

Again - prove I'm wrong.

Oh.. that's right. You can't.

[quaddriver]

PA law does however say this:

Pennsylvania election law suggests that an applicant can expect to receive a voter identification card
within 14 days of the date the application is delivered to the registrar’s office, if the applicant is
deemed to be a qualified registrant.29

What can a person do if her application is denied?
New Registrations. In Pennsylvania the commission may not reject a voter registration
application less than ten days before the very next election following the filing.31 Where a voter
registration application is timely rejected, the commission must notify the applicant by first class,
nonforwardable mail, return postage guaranteed, of the rejection and the reason for the rejection.32
If a registrant believes her voter registration application has been erroneously denied s/he may file a
petition objecting to the rejection with the commission no later than 15 days before the election.33
Upon receipt of the petition, the commission will schedule a public hearing no later than ten days
prior to the election.34 If after the hearing the commission finds the rejection of the registration
unnecessary, they will direct the registrar to add the person to the voter list.35
Additionally, Pennsylvania election law allows an individual whose claim for registration has been
denied to file an appeal in the appropriate Court of Common Pleas.36 The appeal must be filed
no later than one week before the election, it must request relief, and must set forth the particular
grounds for relief.37

Cmon Joey, prove me wrong - apply.

Voter registration is public database in PA, so we will be able to verify if in fact you did register.

[Joe Guy]

I can't find anything about it on the form, in the instructions, in the site's FAQ....

Seems like a pretty significant oversight....

Especially since Pennsylvania has, if you believe what quad wrote, "became much more rigid and controlled by federal mandate."

[quaddriver]

well all that is left is for you to apply....my quoting of the law indicates you will not be deemed a qualified applicant. Lets test this law.

stop muling. stop being a pussy. apply.

[Lord Jim]

In thinking about this further, it certainly seems illogical that they would provide a box on the form to be checked, the only purpose of which was to kick out and reject the application. Why not simply say, "If you do not have either of these numbers, then you are not eligible to register to vote."?

On the other hand, as I mentioned, there doesn't appear to be any language saying that checking the box would be sufficient to have a voter registration card issued to you.

It seems to me that the quickest and most obvious way to clear this up, would be a quick call to VOTESPA during regular business hours and ask them "If you check the box, is your registration accepted, or is there some additional step that you will have to follow?"

Here's the number, if anyone's interested:

1-877-VOTESPA (1-877-868-3772)

[Joe Guy]

"Pennsylvania election law suggests that an applicant can expect to receive a voter identification card
within 14 days of the date the application is delivered to the registrar’s office, if the applicant is
deemed to be a qualified registrant."

Is that your proof?

Cmon Joey, prove me wrong - apply.

Voter registration is public database in PA, so we will be able to verify if in fact you did register.

stop muling. stop being a pussy. apply.

Are you, a person who claims to be a federal government employee, trying to convince me (on a public website) to break the law by registering to vote in your state?

I wonder what your boss would say about that..?

[Joe Guy]

It seems to me that the quickest and most obvious way to clear this up, would be a quick call to VOTESPA during regular business hours and ask them "If you check the box, is your registration accepted, or is there some additional step that you will have to follow?"

Here's the number, if anyone's interested:

1-877-VOTESPA (1-877-868-3772)

I just emailed the following to ST-VOTERREG@pa.gov -

I have a question regarding the application for voter registration. If a person doesn't have a drivers license or Social Security Number and checks the box on the voter registration application to indicate that, will the registration be accepted or will more information be required?

Thanks in advance.

I'll post the response when I get it.

[Lord Jim]

Well, that should certainly clear it up.

[Joe Guy]

In the meantime, maybe quad could indicate where he is located in this flow chart -

[Guinevere]

Without reading either web site, I would guess that residency - which doesn't require citizenship -- is a requirement for voting in PA and requires a valid PA address. Since Joe doesn't live in PA, how exactly do you expect him to get a valid PA address, Quad? And do you expect him to perjure himself and affirm he *is* a PA resident?

[quaddriver]

"Pennsylvania election law suggests that an applicant can expect to receive a voter identification card
within 14 days of the date the application is delivered to the registrar’s office, if the applicant is
deemed to be a qualified registrant."

Is that your proof?

no, thats the PDF from the votespa website I copied that from.

not to worry, I know personally the registration official for my county and fired off an email. I should have a reply next week. And I made it crystal clear what your claims were. both my outgoing, and the incoming will be posted

Are you, a person who claims to be a federal government employee, trying to convince me (on a public website) to break the law by registering to vote in your state?

To set the record straight, I make no such claims. I state with fact. I am required by law to identify myself as such when in the US and its territories.

but to the subject matter, you made the claim you could do such. you are being challenged to prove it. nothing more, nothing less. aside from the fact that your statements prove you are full of shit.

I wonder what your boss would say about that..?

He prolly thinks you need some quality time at guantanamo bay....

[quaddriver]

Without reading either web site, I would guess that residency - which doesn't require citizenship -- is a requirement for voting in PA and requires a valid PA address. Since Joe doesn't live in PA, how exactly do you expect him to get a valid PA address, Quad? And do you expect him to perjure himself and affirm he *is* a PA resident?

well if his claim that no checking is done is true, then he can hardly perjure himself. hell he could buy a valid pa address and get mail and pay taxes without ever setting foot in the state. you would have to ask him, its his fantasy....

[BoSoxGal]

No, you're the one telling him to register. We all read that.

I don't believe you are a federal employee. I think you are an unemployed college dropout living in your parents' basement.

[quaddriver]

No, you're the one telling him to register. We all read that.

I don't believe you are a federal employee. I think you are an unemployed college dropout living in your parents' basement.

gee I hope not, they are both dead...

[Guinevere]

Without reading either web site, I would guess that residency - which doesn't require citizenship -- is a requirement for voting in PA and requires a valid PA address. Since Joe doesn't live in PA, how exactly do you expect him to get a valid PA address, Quad? And do you expect him to perjure himself and affirm he *is* a PA resident?

well if his claim that no checking is done is true, then he can hardly perjure himself. hell he could buy a valid pa address and get mail and pay taxes without ever setting foot in the state. you would have to ask him, its his fantasy....

Utter bullshit and rubbish: knowingly making a false statement (like, I reside in PA when the person resides in Cali) on a sworn document is perjury and your encouragement of such is subornation of perjury.

As for requiring that you identify yourself as a federal employee -- more crap. I was a federal employee, I am good friends with many. There is no such affirmative requirement . . . . although maybe it says so on the tin badge you wear when you play dress-ups.

[quaddriver]

Without reading either web site, I would guess that residency - which doesn't require citizenship -- is a requirement for voting in PA and requires a valid PA address. Since Joe doesn't live in PA, how exactly do you expect him to get a valid PA address, Quad? And do you expect him to perjure himself and affirm he *is* a PA resident?

well if his claim that no checking is done is true, then he can hardly perjure himself. hell he could buy a valid pa address and get mail and pay taxes without ever setting foot in the state. you would have to ask him, its his fantasy....

Utter bullshit and rubbish: knowingly making a false statement (like, I reside in PA when the person resides in Cali) on a sworn document is perjury and your encouragement of such is subornation of perjury. Except when you told him that if he did it he would be caught, oh crap, you ruined my whole point.

As for requiring that you identify yourself as a federal employee -- more crap. I was a federal employee, I am good friends with many. There is no such affirmative requirement . . . . it must say so on the tin badge you wear when you play dress-ups.

well then file a suit then! if you SERIOUSLY think I have suborned perjury, then this should be easy, Lettuce see who prevails.

And Guin, being a contractor is NOT an employee.

You know nothing of OPM requirements. not surprising. there are exactly 2 exemptions, I am in neither one of them. AND, when you were a contractor, you were required to identify yourself as such at the beginning of any verbal or written statement *each time*. <snicker>

[Guinevere]

Except I wasn't a contractor. I was a GS-12 environmental protection specialist, EPA HQ, 401 M Street, SW, Washington DC.

Edited to add: this was *before* I want to law school. I also dealt regularly with Congress, the press, and the regulated community - in person, on the phone, and in writing. I was never "required to identify myself as a federal employee."

[Joe Guy]

not to worry, I know personally the registration official for my county and fired off an email. I should have a reply next week. And I made it crystal clear what your claims were. both my outgoing, and the incoming will be posted

Why not copy & paste your "outgoing" post now? I'd like to see how you stated what my "claims were."

The only thing I wrote about voter registration in Pennsylvania that you might construe to be a "claim" is when I wrote that there is a box to check if you have no SSN or DL, and that it says you should get your Registration Card within two weeks. Of course, that isn't a "claim", it is a reference to what is written on the Pennsylvania Voter Registration Application.

Further, the point that seems to be getting lost on you is that I've proved (with your help this time) that a voter registration card is not proof of citizenship - as you have claimed in the past.

Are you, a person who claims to be a federal government employee, trying to convince me (on a public website) to break the law by registering to vote in your state?

To set the record straight, I make no such claims. I state with fact. I am required by law to identify myself as such when in the US and its territories.

What do you mean by "I make no such claims"? You've written more than once that you report to Timothy Geithner, and now you are urging me to commit a crime in your state. There's no denying that. Everyone here can read what you wrote.

but to the subject matter, you made the claim you could do such. you are being challenged to prove it. nothing more, nothing less.

Show me where I claimed that I could register to vote in your state. You can't because I never did. You shouldn't make things up. It makes you look silly....er.

I wonder what your boss would say about that..?

He prolly thinks you need some quality time at guantanamo bay....

My guess is that your real supervisor (if you actually are a federal employee as you claim to be) would advise you to not urge people on the internet to commit crimes. However, you've done it, so it's too late to get out of that one.

Can I have Timmy's phone number, please?

[Joe Guy]

I state with fact. I am required by law to identify myself as such when in the US and its territories.

So, you go to your favorite In & Out Burger and you always say, "Give me two big fat burgers & large fries and as a requirement of my government position, I'm required to tell you that my name is E% G*^$$!*(, an IT worker for the federal government and in my position I work directly under the supervision of Timothy Geithner of the US Treasury."

It must be difficult for you to meet that requirement throughout your daily life. I'd get tired of having to say that to everyone if I had to do that.