The U.S. Government Should Stop Making Cents

[Gob]

Oh this is delicious...

[rubato]

The lovely Tom Lehrer. Ladies and Gentlemen.

Recently retired from UCSC, our alma mater and just about 1 mile up the road from our door. He taught math and American musical theater there for decades.

yrs,
rubato

[Scooter]

I guess the question I would have for those who seem to think it would be just peachy to ignore the clearly expressed views of the majority and impose on them something they manifestly do not want for no compelling reason would be:

Why do you hate our democracy?

The same poll showed 70% support for raising taxes on those earning over $250K. So I guess you agree that anyone who opposes such a move also "hates democracy".

[PMS Princess]

My feeling is that, although coins can to be inconvenient and cumbersome, they are a smarter choice. I guess I kinda of compare it to owning gold on paper and actually having it in your possession. When everything goes to hell I think that coins are more stable (also depending on metals used) and will end up being used for currency. An example would be silver dollars. They used to be worth a bit more due to the numismatic value and then crept up to about $16. Now, they have lost the numismatic value and have increased to about $28 due to silver content. The numismatic value is now in uncirculated or rarities. It's also much more difficult to produce counterfeit coins. Occasionally you run across tokens and medals that are fakes because of the collecting value and lower quantity minted.

I haven't researched actual statistics and have a rather sour view of U.S. politics. I have been a collector since about 1974. My dad started taking me to coin shows about age seven and am still attending to network with the dealers we've known for ages, (they are a wealth of information). Shows are far and few between now due to internet and E-Bay. I used to work on a international mining publication so I have noted how gold has fluctuated drastically over the years and the conflicts of private and government involved in production.

I will say that I love the Austalian $2 coin and convenient it was when traveling. Not to mention that notes have different colors for denominations. It makes more sense to me. Anyhow, I realized I have wandered off topic and will shut up.

[Lord Jim]

What a gem, Strop!....

I've been a huge fan of Tom Leher's since my early teens, and thought I had all his work on DVDs (I also had the opportunity to meet him in person at an event at The National Press Club back int the mid 70's that my father took me to when I was in high school...)

But I've never seen that one before...

It looks like kind of a British variation of his classic, New Math:

[Gob]

It would seem he had a regular spot on the Frost show, some of which is on Youtube.

[MajGenl.Meade]

The British government managed to do away with the paper Pound sterling without suffering riots on the street and so on.

Part of the problem is that people are used to carrying 20 dollar bills or more (very few poor people of course) and their first thought is "Wow I can't carry 20 of those heavy coin dollar things". They have not had the experience of walking with only 4 dollar coins and carrying some $5 bills. It's just a matter of practise.

In SA the smallest bill is 10 Rands. Regardless of Forex rates, R10 is locally equivalent to $2 or $3 in purchasing effectiveness.

The largest coin is 5 Rands and that would be locally equivalent to the dollar. (The new R5 is much heavier and I just got 19 of them spit at me as change by the Park-n-Pay machine at Bloem airport; serves me right for having nothing other than an R100 note to feed it). There are silver-coloured R1 and R2 coins also.

They still mint 5c, 10c, 20c, 50c coins here and there are 1c and 2c still in circulation. But no-one wants them. Shops uniformly round prices off to avoid the smaller copper coins. Car-guards are likely to throw brown coins back in your face unless there's a judicious mix of R1 and R2 in there with them.

What's needed in the USA is for bi-partisan action - the populace cannot throw out all the rascals at one time - and a few brass (er cupro-nickel) balls to be grown in Congress.

Meade

[Lord Jim]

What's needed in the USA is for bi-partisan action - the populace cannot throw out all the rascals at one time - and a few brass (er cupro-nickel) balls to be grown in Congress.

And General, the pressing national interest that would justify this arrogant overriding of the popular will would be.........?

I would suggest that "what's needed" is for those who think that the dollar coin should be shoved down the throats of an unwilling nation abandon that anti-democratic course, and take up the task of actually trying to convince a majority of their countrymen that the dollar coin would somehow be an improvement....

Just as soon as they can come up with any good reasons for why this would be so....

[Crackpot]

Telling the people to make a choice: a thrifty government or dollar bills.

in other words Shared sacrifice.

Serioiusly people complain about government inefficency when they stubbornly won't part with a bill that is costing the goevrment far more money than it needs?

[Lord Jim]

That argument is fairly specious CP....

Let's look a the numbers....

The estimate is that switching from the paper dollar to the dollar coin would save 5.5 billion...

Over 30 years....

Well let's see...

That works out to about 183 million dollars a year...

Total federal spending for FY 2012 is estimated at about 6.8 trillion....

Unfortunately my el cheapo calculator does not have enough decimal places to compute just how microscopic a percentage of the federal budget that is....

More money could probably be saved just by waxing the floors in federal buildings one fewer time per month....

I'm afraid the "lets up-end our currency " lobby is going to have to come up with a better reason than that....

[Crackpot]

every bit counts why not remove the paper dollar and wax the floors less?

You offer a false choice. Truthfully as I've used dollar (and 2 dollar) coins more and more (in other countries (mainly canada)) I've come to like them more and more. (ecspecially the 2 dallar coin)

the arguments for the bill are largely emotioanl and hold no bearing on reality. Whear as the dollar coin just makes fiscal sense.

[Joe Guy]

First of all, saving billions of dollars is a good thing no matter how long it takes,

Second, does anybody think we should get rid of pennies & nickels?

[rubato]

Eliminate the penny and nickel and dump the paper dollar. $1 and $2 coins work fine and its easier to make vending machines for them.

People will adjust and within 2 years they will prefer the cost savings to the initial difficulty.

Trivial.

yrs,
rubato

[Crackpot]

I'm warming to dumping the cent (not there yet) but not the nickel changing the formula should suffice.

[Lord Jim]

That's funny CP....

I've been in favor of dumping the penny (or as I affectionately call it, "the infernal zinc slug") for more than a decade....

I think the popular resistance to that would be slim to none....

ETA:

Or at the very least, let's get Lincoln's picture off of it and replace him with a President who's worth is more befitting the value of the coin....

Like Jimmy Carter....

That would be very fitting; like the penny, he's nothing but annoying and just won't go away....

[Crackpot]

See I don't have a problem spending pennies and I rarely have more than 4 to my name. (that aren't part of collections) I just dislike the idea of rounding and suspect it will be used to the detriment of the consumer.

[Lord Jim]

and suspect it will be used to the detriment of the consumer.

You mean like what happened when the liquor industry went metric?

ETA:

Actually, in the case of the penny, I think the rounding could actually be a slight benefit to the consumer...

A business that sold a product for $39.99 for example, would probably mark it down in price to $39.95 so that they could keep the psychological selling advantage of having the "39" rather than having to move it up to "40"....

[Crackpot]

You mean like what happened when the liquor industry went metric?

you saying it didn't?

ETA:

Actually, in the case of the penny, I think the rounding could actually be a slight benefit to the consumer...

A business that sold a product for $39.99 for example, would probably mark it down in price to $39.95 so that they could keep the psychological selling advantage of having the "39" rather than having to move it up to "40"....

in my understanig prices won't (necessessarily) change just the final total you pay at the register after taxes etc. are tallied.

[Lord Jim]

You mean like what happened when the liquor industry went metric?

you saying it didn't?

No, I'm saying that when it did the public got screwed...

You may be too much of a young whippersnapper to remember this, but the most popular unit for the sale of hard liquor in this country used to be something called "a fifth" (one fifth of a gallon) now it's still often referred to as "a fifth" but it's actually 750 milliliters which is slightly less than one fifth of a US gallon.

[Crackpot]

I know all about that. (even though I wan't a liquor drinker at the time.)