Anders Breivek gets 21 years

[loCAtek]

Bronchitis for two weeks!? That's rough, Jim. How did you manage that in the summer; too much breathing in of the fog vapors, affected the balance of your humors?

[Lord Jim]

The same way I usually get bronchitis every two or three years, LoCa....

My own stupidity...

I caught a cold, and probably could have been over it in 2-3 days, but rather than take it easy I just continued to go full speed with work and family until it developed into bronchitis....

At that point I decided I had no choice but do the things I needed to take care of myself....(unless I wasn't going to be satisfied till I went from bronchitis to pneumonia)

No one to blame but myself.

I'm a guy; when we get sick we tend to ignore it until we're keeling over....

[Lord Jim]

How did you manage that in the summer;

LoCa, summer in San Fran ain't nothin' like summer in San Jose...particularly in the Outer Sunset....

Since early July, I could count on the fingers of one hand the number of times the mercury has broken 60. At the moment, according to the Weather Bug on my computer, (which takes it's readings from the zoo, about 10 blocks from where we live) it reads 51 degrees at 12:20 in the afternoon....No sign of the sun, and you can add to that a damp breeze blowing in off the ocean....

Yesterday was actually an exceptional day; got up to the low 60s and the sun broke through late in the morning and stayed out till evening....(normally at this time of year, we get about 30 minutes of sunshine some time between 4 in the afternoon and 7 at night.)

Fortunately we have friends and relatives who live in the East Bay and and down The Peninsula, so we're able to get out of The Bottled City Of Kandor and actually go visit the real summer....

[Econoline]

Perhaps you might have some justification for saying that when Norway's murder rate comes close to approaching yours, where barbaric punishments are experiencing such resounding success in deterring would-be murderers. Until then...

Under the circumstances, that would be sort of like NASA saying, after the Challenger disaster, "Well, the space shuttle program has had such a good overall safety record up to now, we should wait until the next explosion before deciding if we need to do anything different..."

[Gob]

Get well soon Jim!

[Lord Jim]

Thanks Strop.....

You know I'm a little disappointed...

I was really hoping rube would come back and try and explain again how he's actually right about the DP/murder rate thing....

The only thing funnier than when that pompous gasbag completely screws the pooch like this is when he comes back over and over again to screw it some more....

But I guess it's just as well....

In my current condition if I laugh too hard it brings on a major coughing fit....

[Grim Reaper]

The death penalty is obviously only part of the equation, but when we end up potentially executing an innocent man, you start to rethink things.

It might be part of keeping crime rates down, but I don't believe our current justice system can be trusted with that verdict on a person's life.

[Lord Jim]

Grim, I don't for a moment dispute that there are plenty of thoughtful serious arguments that can be made against the death penalty....It's something about which intelligent and serious minded people can (and do) differ. And no one of course wants innocent people executed. (No sane person, anyway)

But clearly the idea that eliminating the DP will bring down the murder rate is not one of those arguments. And the sort of simple minded garbage about "blood lust" and "lovin' a good killin'" that rube regurgitates on cue whenever this topic comes up obviously does nothing to facilitate or add anything of value to the discussion.

But then it's rare that rube brings anything to the table that adds value to any discussion.

Though to give credit where credit is due, (which is more than that oaf ever has the grace to do.) he did manage to add some input that was of value in the Lance Armstrong thread, just this morning.

[Jarlaxle]

Hey...even a blind jackass finds an occasional feedbag!

[rubato]

Some people are too stupid and too ignorant to argue with.

LJ is among those.


yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

Some people are too stupid and too ignorant to argue with.

I know that rube, but I like to still give you a chance anyway...

Plus, even though of course I know you're an imbecile, there are apparently some folks around here who still haven't been convinced of that yet, (they know you're an asshole of course, but they still actually believe you possess some form of higher order intelligence) so I like to provide you with the opportunity to prove it to them as well....

You rarely disappoint....

[dales]

Some people are too stupid and too ignorant to argue with.

yrs,
rubato

वानर मस् तिष् क

[Econoline]

I am both against the death penalty and against Norway's "21 years maximum sentence" policy. In the absence of the DP, life without parole should always be an option, and this case is a prime example why.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Proving that if you give up the frission of pleasure
yrs,
rubato

undid a mis-edit.

I think Peter Stuyvesant was a frission of pleasure and definitely difficult to give up. And Mata Hari was certainly a pleasure.



Though what these poor innocent Dutch people have to do with mass murder in Norway I don't know

Meade

[Lord Jim]

In the absence of the DP, life without parole should always be an option, and this case is a prime example why.

Well, I can certainly agree with that...

If this had happened in this country, if he had been tried in a state with the DP (or under federal statutes, which might have applied because of the political nature of the crime) he would most certainly have received the death penalty....

In states with no DP he would either have received life with out parole, or he would have been ordered to serve all of the sentences for the crimes he was convicted of consecutively....(which with 77 counts of first degree murder, and an array of other charges, would have made him eligible for parole in about 400 years)

I don't believe there's any jurisdiction in the US where a judge would even have had the option to pass down a sentence for crimes like this, anywhere near as lenient as this, (which was the maximum available under Norwegian law) If any judge were able to give a sentence like this for this crime in the US, and actually did so, there would be mass protests in the streets and active moves to get the judge removed.

It seems to me that a sentence like this for a crime like this is grossly devaluing of human life. One of the saddest things to me in reading the article in the OP, was the quoted reaction of Norwegians, including family members of the victims, who seemed to be so accepting of this travesty....

It's their country, and they can do what they want, but personally I think it's a sad day when the people of a supposedly civilized country can take with such complete acceptance a decision which places so cheap a value on the lives of their innocent young relatives and countrymen.

[Big RR]

Jim--in your mind is there ANY sentence, even execution, which properly "values" the worth of the lives taken? I honestly can't think of one. A number of young lives were snuffed out, and any punishment of the perpetrator neither changes that nor even begins to balance the scales for even one life (let alone multiple lives)--if my child were killed in this way, I cannot even fathom any sentence that could even be dreamed up that could begin to recgnize the depravity of what was done or somehow attone for it.

At best all any sentence can do is to remove someone like that from society for a term of years (which can be lifetime in LWOP or death), and while I don't know for certain, I'd venture to guess that 21 years is probably one of the longest sentences which can be handed out in Norway. Add to that the real possibility that the incaceration can continue for so long as the perpetrator is deemed to be a threat to society, and that's about the best any society can do--impose a serious sentence to show that it recognizes the serious of the crime (as compared with the sentences imposed for "lesser" crimes) and to take steps to minimize the danger of this person to society--forever if possible. Nothing ever can or will recignuze the values of the lives taken.

[MajGenl.Meade]

if my child were killed in this way, I cannot even fathom any sentence that could even be dreamed up

Well 21 years is too long - if it were my children I'd like to be alive and spry when they let him out. Maybe 21 days would be better

Meade

[Gob]

Ditto what Meade said.

[rubato]

Bronchitis for two weeks!? That's rough, Jim. How did you manage that in the summer; too much breathing in of the fog vapors, affected the balance of your humors?

He's a smoker.

yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

Well that's certainly misleading as all hell....

I smoke a pipe; and according to my doctor, based on how I smoke it and the amount I smoke, I'm probably getting the ill health effect of smoking about two cigarettes a day...

Not much impact there...