Toy Story Three

[loCAtek]

Well that, and Walt Disney died.

[loCAtek]

Japanese Anime had a following during that period, but it was not 'family entertainment' that Americans are used to.

Japan has a tradition of visual mass communication, through its 'Manga' (loosely translated as 'comic books', recently updated to be called 'graphic novels'.) These can have very adult themes, and rather than use live-action with SPX; the Japanese choose to animate the content. Osamu Tezuka, spear-headed the genre with such works as 'Kimba the White Lion', 'Astro Boy' and 'Speed racer', dubbing him the "Godfather of Anime". It's said Tezuka and Disney often inspired and influenced each other.

[Lord Jim]

To elaborate a little more:

There were probably two major contributing factors to that relatively desolate period in animation...

One was the increasing expense, due in large measure to the increasing wage demand of unionized artists...(I'm not trying to make a political point here...the artists deserved to be paid more, many great cartoon artists were exploited at very low wages to produce masterpieces like The Sorcerer's Apprentice...I'm just noting an historical fact.)

And the other major factor was the advent of television...

The studios fairly early on discovered that the visual quality expectation of the audience for cartoons on television was considerably lower than it had been in movie houses, for the simple reason that the visual quality expectations of the audience for television in general was considerably lower...(given the technical quality of television at the time) and they took advantage of this to cut costs.

There were a small handful of cartoons that bucked the trend during this period, (Johnny Quest comes to mind as a cartoon series that had both reasonably intelligent writing and relatively decent animation) but most of the cartoons that made up the Saturday morning fare when I was a kid in the late 60's consisted of stuff like Space Ghost, The Archies and Josie And The Pussy Cats (and a little later stuff like He Man and She Ra) that had both lousy writing and lousy animation...

Of course people of my generation still remember those cartoons fondly because they were a part of our childhood, (even though by any objective artistic standard they sucked) and I've noticed that in recent years Hollywood has exploited this nostalgic fondness by reviving some of them...(generally in an improved form)

[Lord Jim]

Japanese Anime had a following during that period, but it was not 'family entertainment' that Americans are used to.

There were a few that were popular when I was a kid LoCa...

Astro Boy, The 8th Man and Speed Racer come to mind...

The animation in those series were even worse than in US made cartoons of the period, but the individual frame drawings were of better quality...

And again, Hollywood exploits this history very intelligently and it works...

I took Tati to see the Astro Boy movie last year, (which was technically vastly superior to the original series) because I remembered it, and wanted to share something from my childhood with her...

I'm sure many other parents did as well...

I'm not faulting the entertainment industry for doing this...it's good business...

[loCAtek]

I dunno, it was also in this time frame that Don Bluth, ('The Secret of NIMH', 'An American Tail') originally a Disney animator, left to form his own studio. He sited creative limits for his departure.

[loCAtek]

There were a few that were popular when I was a kid LoCa...

Astro Boy, The 8th Man and Speed Racer come to mind...

The animation in those series were even worse than in US made cartoons of t.

I recall those too, but that's what you saw released in the states. In country, they were producing things like 'Devilman', 'Demon Overlord', and 'Macross'. (Not to mention Hentai)

[Crackpot]

Astro Boy and Speed Racer were heavily edited for us audiences (not familiar with the other one)

[Sue U]

Perhaps explaining why they always seemed so incoherent?

All these years I had thought it was a stylistic thing.

[Lord Jim]

Perhaps explaining why they always seemed so incoherent?

I thought it was a translation issue...

The same reason Japanese horror movies always seemed so incoherent...

[dales]

Lord Jim sez....

Well that's because you're so far away from having small kids around that you've become a cranky old geezer...

As opposed to attending your son's High School Graduation commencement in a wheel chair?

[loCAtek]

Perhaps explaining why they always seemed so incoherent?

All these years I had thought it was a stylistic thing.

Yes, and no. The Japanese language conveys more with less words; which is one reason why English voice actors had to speak fast to try and match the mouth movements. The other was the Japanese didn't feel it necessary to animate each and every vocal sound, and were satisfied to simply have the character's mouth open and close, without consideration to the exact words.
It was decades until 'Akira', that Anime artists focused on vocalization detail.

[Big RR]

I think the other "incoherence" was historical; even in the 60s the Japanese were keenly ware of what could happen when the forces of science were directed toward causing harm; it had scarcely been 20 years since Hiroshima and Nagasaki. So rather than looking at the atomic power as a destructive monster with atomic fire breath (aka Godzilla) who would wreak havoc and kill innocents, it were seen as something that could be harnessed by clever and creative people for good, even if they did occasionally get out of hand and beyond their, or controlled by the forces of evil. So you had Astro Boy, 8th Man (Tobor, I believe?), Gigantor--robotic creatures powered by atomic energy and used, usually, for good. Likewise, Speed Racer showed how a single man (boy?) could control the awesome power of the fastest/most powerful car ever made. Storylines were secondary, it was a catharsis to Japanese audiences, much as Godzilla and the other atomic/alien monsters were. It showed the people that the great forces could still be controlled and even defeated by common sense ingenuity and the people who dared to take them on. I even recall in theme song for Gigantor, it was emphasized again and again that his power was at "your command" and "in your hand", and that a little boy usually controlled what the otherwise monster would do.

In the America of the 50s/early 60s, we did not fear power--we saw it as making us stronger. So we had superman (a being practically beyond the control of everyone) as hero who was celebrated as a savior. Clearly, a fear was also present as demonstrated in some flms, but many Americans still saw the technology as a force for good, not evil; something the Japanese coudl not quite do at the time. This disconnect< IMHO, is what led to the incoherence of the Japanimation.

[Lord Jim]

8th Man (Tobor, I believe?), Gigantor--robotic creatures

"Tobor" is correct, Big RR...His secret identity name was the word "robot" backwards....

I also remember Gigantor... Giant robot that would show up to karate chop the evil doers....(I just looked that show up on IMDB, and discovered that one of the character's names in the English version was "Dick Strong"...I wonder if somebody was trying to have a little joke at the censors expense... )

[Big RR]

Dick Strong? It couldn't be a coincidence.

[@meric@nwom@n]

Having just seen TS3 tonight the OP of this thread has become all the weirder.

[liberty]

Having just seen TS3 tonight the OP of this thread has become all the weirder.

I am afraid I don’t understand; this is not part of the movie:

I find myself thinking about the movie myself. Two questions keep coming up in my thoughts: Why is Sherriff Woody, the cowboy doll, so important to Andy and where is Andy’s father. I think the answer is self evident: Andy’s father is dead and he gave Woody to Andy just before he died. Andy’s father was the county sheriff and was killed in the line of duty. Andy would miss his dad when he was at work. So Andy’s father gave him the sheriff doll to play with when he is away. Andy’s father said, “ This is Sheriff Woody he was my pall when I was a little boy; he will take care of you when I am not around” Andy noticed and said‘” Look dad he has a badge just like you“. A short time later Andy’s father died and Woody became Andy’s pall and that is how a toy could be so important to an eighteen years old man.

That is just my attempt to explain the questions I find in the story. What is weird about it?

Perhaps such sentimentality as TS3 is not to your liking, that’s ok. Perhaps you prefer Pulp Fiction and the Saw movies. I on the other hand think both are disgusting. Don’t get me wrong I enjoy a good historically based western or war movie as long as the violence is dealt with properly.

[@meric@nwom@n]

Having just seen TS3 tonight the OP of this thread has become all the weirder.

I am afraid I don’t understand; this is not part of the movie:

I very much enjoyed TS3. I am afraid I never saw Saw but I do get that you are trying to be condescending. But that's ok, rather amusing coming from you.

Your OP is just very strange and the ramblings of your own mind rather than anything what-so-ever to do with the movie. Seeing the movie brought that home.

[BoSoxGal]

FWIW, liberty is not the only one to muse on the subject.

The importance of Woody to Andy's life and how that may relate to the absence of a father figure from the films is a subject discussed at length on internet boards and in the popular media.

The creators leave the question unanswered, but there does seem to be some acceptance of the theory that they may have had a celebration of the triumphs of single motherhood in mind to some degree in creating the story without a father figure present - that no matter how Andy came to be without a father, he turned out pretty good with just his Mom raising him.

[liberty]

Having just seen TS3 tonight the OP of this thread has become all the weirder.

I am afraid I don’t understand; this is not part of the movie:

I very much enjoyed TS3. I am afraid I never saw Saw but I do get that you are trying to be condescending. But that's ok, rather amusing coming from you.

Your OP is just very strange and the ramblings of your own mind rather than anything what-so-ever to do with the movie. Seeing the movie brought that home.

Sorry if I misread you; I was not trying to be condescending. I am just wrong sometimes. You can’t be a good archer if you are not willing to run the risk of missing the mark from time to time.