Boston Marathon Bomb Attack?!?!?

[dales]

Why?

[RayThom]

I'm still using the acoustic coupler I stole from the Pentagon in 1981. However, when verifying stupid shit all you need is text, not web videos.

Search key words:
"asinine story MA Honda heading Manhattan driver wearing suicide vest". You'll be surprised at all the text pages that pop up.

It's so frustrated only listening to the audio on Hulu.com. I listened to "Star Trek, the Wrath of Kahn" last night. I pretend I'm sitting around the old Philco 630 Console -- I hardly miss the video.

[Lord Jim]

Unfortunately, I think there's a real chance that this guy may not have a whole lot to give us, even if he cooperates....The one who really could have been informative is dead....

He'll be able to tell us what the motivations behind this were, but anything this guy can say about what foreign connections there might be is likely to be second hand; he may only know what his brother chose to share with him. (Which may produce actionable intelligence, or may not)

[Crackpot]

Has it occurred to anyone that this may still be "domestic" terrorism?

[Lord Jim]

It's starting to look like a hybrid to me CP...

[liberty]

Why?

I have an old computer with dial up.

[alice]

I belatedly just wanted to say that I looked in here after the bombing and while the drama was unfolding (although I didn't log in), to see the updates but also to make sure everyone here was okay.
I never remember where in America anyone lives, so I have to wait until you all start naming people, or the people check in and let everyone know they're okay. So it was good to hear that Guinevere and partner were okay, and I hope that everyone else is, and that all your friends and family are okay - and that's for both the bombing and the explosion at Waco.

>>>>>>

Separately, I'd like to have a little rant, if I may:
It's been really annoying to see how quickly the conspiracy theories have hit, and how nasty they already are.
I read an article about the young man Jeff (can't remember his last name offhand) who was seen in those horrific photos with his leg bone sticking out and skin from the calf hanging down like red material, being wheeled - ashen faced - in a wheelchair by the medics, with a guy in a cowboy hat running with them holding the straps of the tourniquet. The article was describing how young Jeff had looked into the eyes of the man referred to thereafter as 'black hat', and then 'black hat' had put a backpack down right near Jeff's feet, which two minutes later blew up. After being operated on and losing his legs, Jeff was able to relay that he could give a description of the person who put the bomb-bag down. Apparently his assistance in being able to describe and point out 'black hat' from photos helped save many many hours of investigative work and was one of the factors that led to the very speedy identification of the bomb planters.
The comments below the article ranged from calling young Jeff a 'hero' to absolutely denying that any detail about him was true (including that he did not lose his limbs, or that he actually didn't exist), and there were many comments attacking people for believing that this was the 'work' of anyone other than the Government. Apparently anyone who believes 'the media' is a sheepie, or sheeple maybe, and the Government does this sort of this to keep people/Americans scared; this makes it easier to do all that Big brother stuff, because Americans will let the Government do all of that without over-questioning it if they think there are terrorists in their midst.
Or something like that.
If 'we' are 'sheepies' (or 'sheeples' I can't remember which. Or maybe they were interchangeable) because we believe the very generalised 'media' - then how else do we get information" How do 'they' (those that 'know the truth') find out the information that 'we' miss? If 'they' use the internet for 'their' investigations - aren't 'they' using social media? How do 'they' know that 'they' are right and 'we' (everyone else) are wrong? To be fair - I know that there is always a lot of misreporting at times like this; but most of that is due to the haste of the media to be the first to report what is happening as it happens - the misinformation is usually quite quickly corrected and the truth in situations like this usually ends up being verified very quickly through a multitude of sources (at least, the truth as we 'sheepies' believe it).
I just find it very wrong of these people to immediately jump to the whole 'Government did it' theory and to denounce people like young Jeff, as well as belittling the efforts of the police and other services who pushed themselves to the limits trying to solve this and catch those responsible, and who did this while under the relentless gaze of the public and of the world media.
If they had any respect for the victims (which included Jeff - one of the people they were denigrating), surely they could have waited at least a few days before starting their conspiracy attacks.
I know it's not the biggest issue at a time like this, but I do find those sort of people (conspiracy theorists) to be lacking in any compassion at all, and they annoy me. The ones saying hurtful and awful things about young Jeff made me quite angry, and if we'd been face to face it would have been hard not to have biffed them over their despicable comments.

/ rant over, thank you.
>>>>>>>

[liberty]

"MA Honda heading to Manhattan with Driver wearing Suicide Vest!!!..."

This hot flash first appeared on the Interweb five (5) days ago. I suspect the driver is traveling at a very, very, slow speed, or he got lost in Yonkers.

This shit news is so easily debunked upon a simple web search. Why do you feel is it worthy of a comment?

"is there anything to this:" I'm with Joe... NO!!!

It appears that you guys are wrong based on what I heard on TV just now (CBS This morning? ) he did have a web site on which he made anti American statements. I am not trying to offend that is just what I believe I heard.

[Guinevere]

The national security exception to Miranda is very narrow, it concerns specific siguations, specific types of questions, and specific kinds of questioning. It does not give the authorities some unlimited right to ask any kind of questions they want, or use any tactics they want, to gain information.

Guin--someone asked me a question about this exception that I don't know; does the subject of the interrogation still have a right to remain silent (or can he be coerced?). And does he have a right to suspend questioning until his counsel is present? Do you know.

The right to counsel (6th A) is separate from the Miranda procedure (which is about the right against self-incrimination - 5th A).

No, they cannot coerce him to speak if he refuses, and coerced information cannot be used as evidence against him, and may not be able to be used as evidence in any criminal proceeding (fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine). So they need to be very careful about what information they seek and how it is used.

I should add, these are may basic understandings. I'm not a criminal lawyer, so there are likely many fine points here I'm not familiar with. But, I do know the judges in the United States District Court for the District of Massachusetts and the First Circuit, and I'm familiar with how they rule on cases and their general views of various aspects of the law. Everything here better be done to the letter of the law (and there is no reason the FBI and the US Attorney's office won't be that careful).

[Guinevere]

That's what I would be afraid of. It's times like this, when emotions are running high, that it is more important than ever to avoid descending to that level.

Exactly right.

A Police Chief in a central MA community issued a "statement" that essentially criticized the FBI and US Attorney's office for even bothering to care about the Constitution, and to treat the suspect as an enemy combatant with no rights, regardless of his US citizenship. It was appalling pandering to the restless masses, and given his sworn duty to uphold the MA and US Constitutions, very very troubling.

[liberty]

Has it occurred to anyone that this may still be "domestic" terrorism?

CP, do you want it to be domestic terrorism? I tend to agree with LJ it appears to be a little of both. The suspect were young Chechen Moslem immigrants one of which had recently vested visited his homeland and both have live in this country sense they were kids.

But I agree in that it could just have easily been domestic; we have plenty hatred on both side of political spectrum to generate an insurgency at least to level of the 1960s. We are not a united country, no more than when the bush was president.

Gob is often perplexed by American politics, but in his country they have political opponents, on the other hand in our country we have political enemies and it has been that way since the sixties.

And again I am not trying to offend, that is just my opinion

[Crackpot]

What I "want" is irrelevant from what I've heard about the suspects lead me to think "Islamic terrorism" is at best a small part of the big story. At worst it's a complete red herring. But from all sources I hear there doesn't even seem to be question that this is "Islamic terrorism" seemingly based on the sole fact that they are/were Muslim. Heck the only thing that rules out is "Aryan nation" (and I'm not too sure ethnic Chechnyan would rule that out)

[Long Run]

Even with all of the tremendous effort on the part of the policy/FBI, and the diligence of the community, it still came down to the perpetrators making mistakes that led to their quick undoing. They had no getaway plan. If they had left Boston immediately after the bombing, it could have been weeks or months before they could have been found. Instead they stayed and the younger one went back to his college campus. They knew the authorities had their pictures from security cameras and yet they remained in Boston.

It was only after the public release of the pictures that they decided to leave. Then, instead of stealthily escaping, they kill a campus police officer and get away in a car they stole. The car-jacking made sense from their standpoint since they needed transportation and some money, but then they released the owner-hostage on a street corner and the information the hostage provides -- the car and license and location -- leads to the gun battle that kills the older one and injures the younger one.

The younger one is still able to get away despite the massive manhunt under way and eludes police. The police do an exhaustive door to door search but decide he must have escaped the area. When people are allowed out of their homes, an observant homeowner sees the open flap on his boat cover, another fortunate turn of events, and then the police are able to capture him.

Not sure of the point, but we can't take much comfort in their relatively quick capture/demise if two poorly prepared misfits are able to cause this massive amount of death, injury and mayhem; and but for their incompetence, maybe get away, despite the enormous effort by authorities and the community.

[Joe Guy]

I was kinda thinking the same thing, LR. It seems as though the only reason these murderers were caught so quickly is because they were stupid. They seem to have had no plan other than to set off those bombs, and maybe a couple more.

If all of Boston hadn't been shut down and people hadn't stayed in their homes, the result most likely would have been exactly the same.

[Big RR]

And does he have a right to suspend questioning until his counsel is present?

I would certainly hope not....

It seems to me the whole advantage of being able to question him without mirandizing him is to be able to question him without an attorney...

The downside to this procedure is that they wouldn't be able to use a confession in court, but it's not like they need a confession to make their case against him.

I thought the entire point was to acquire information needed immediately to prevent further deaths/injuries/destruction; not to keep an attorney out of the room (nor do I think an attorney present would prevent a suspect from answering if (s)he chose to (although an attorney could be used to be certain the questioning is restricted to legally permitted questions).

[Gob]

Tens of thousands of runners have taken part in the London Marathon, many with black ribbons on their vests in honour of the victims of the Boston bombings.



A record 700,000 spectators lined the streets as the 36,000 runners set off from Blackheath, where a 30-second silence was held.

Hundreds of extra police officers were drafted in as reassurance in London.

About half a million people were expected to watch the race, although official estimates have yet to be made.

Just before the start of the main race, event commentator Geoff Wightman introduced the half-minute silence.

"Marathon running is a global sport," he said.

"It unites runners and supporters on every continent in pursuit of a common challenge and in the spirit of friendship and fellowship."

He said the marathon family had been "shocked and saddened" by the events in Boston and the silence was to show "our respect and support for the victims".

A senior US diplomat based in the UK said the commemoration underlined the "special relationship" between the two countries.

Barbara Stephenson, Charge d'Affaires at the US Embassy, told Sky News: "We've had responses from Her Majesty the Queen, all through Twitter from the British people, and now we have got tens of thousands of London Marathon runners wearing a black ribbon in solidarity with the people of Boston.

"As my senior law enforcement person said on Friday afternoon, it's moments like this when you know what the special relationship's really all about."

The event appears to have passed off without incident.

[Lord Jim]

[Jarlaxle]

That's what I would be afraid of. It's times like this, when emotions are running high, that it is more important than ever to avoid descending to that level.

Exactly right.

A Police Chief in a central MA community issued a "statement" that essentially criticized the FBI and US Attorney's office for even bothering to care about the Constitution, and to treat the suspect as an enemy combatant with no rights, regardless of his US citizenship. It was appalling pandering to the restless masses, and given his sworn duty to uphold the MA and US Constitutions, very very troubling.

That police chief should be fired immediately.

[Guinevere]

And does he have a right to suspend questioning until his counsel is present?

I would certainly hope not....

It seems to me the whole advantage of being able to question him without mirandizing him is to be able to question him without an attorney...

The downside to this procedure is that they wouldn't be able to use a confession in court, but it's not like they need a confession to make their case against him.

I thought the entire point was to acquire information needed immediately to prevent further deaths/injuries/destruction; not to keep an attorney out of the room (nor do I think an attorney present would prevent a suspect from answering if (s)he chose to (although an attorney could be used to be certain the questioning is restricted to legally permitted questions).

That's right. Jim may play an attorney on tv, but he's not one.

As I said before, the national security exception to Miranda is very limited in time and scope. In one case I know about, questioning about imminent danger was allowed for under an hour, then the suspect was mirandized.

Given the fact that the Boston/local police have stated the "danger is over" etc, the US Attorney is going to have to make a damn good showing to make her case. I expect the FBI will help on that point.

[Guinevere]

Even with all of the tremendous effort on the part of the policy/FBI, and the diligence of the community, it still came down to the perpetrators making mistakes that led to their quick undoing. They had no getaway plan. If they had left Boston immediately after the bombing, it could have been weeks or months before they could have been found. Instead they stayed and the younger one went back to his college campus. They knew the authorities had their pictures from security cameras and yet they remained in Boston.

It was only after the public release of the pictures that they decided to leave. Then, instead of stealthily escaping, they kill a campus police officer and get away in a car they stole. The car-jacking made sense from their standpoint since they needed transportation and some money, but then they released the owner-hostage on a street corner and the information the hostage provides -- the car and license and location -- leads to the gun battle that kills the older one and injures the younger one.

The younger one is still able to get away despite the massive manhunt under way and eludes police. The police do an exhaustive door to door search but decide he must have escaped the area. When people are allowed out of their homes, an observant homeowner sees the open flap on his boat cover, another fortunate turn of events, and then the police are able to capture him.

Not sure of the point, but we can't take much comfort in their relatively quick capture/demise if two poorly prepared misfits are able to cause this massive amount of death, injury and mayhem; and but for their incompetence, maybe get away, despite the enormous effort by authorities and the community.

Incompetence? Wow, that's stunningly inaccurate.

They knew who the men were by face on Wednesday. Apparently they did not have IDs, or confirmed IDs at that point. The plan of releasing the photos to flush them out worked perfectly. Based on the Thursday night incident, they knew the kid was wounded (there were blood trails here and there) and they didn't think he could get very far. By shutting down all public transport, the city, and the surrounding towns, he was trapped. The perimeter in Watertown was set based on manpower as much as anything -- the Watertown Chief said they didn't have officers to make it any broader -- and its been all hands on deck since Monday (which is already an all hands on deck day, too). Five days to go from anonymous bombing to custody? I think that's pretty darn good. Five days later they don't even know what caused the fire/explosion at the fertilizer plant. Would you call those investigators incompetent?