Israel at War

[BoSoxGal]

Watching Speaker Johnson speaking at Columbia University while Palestinian/Hamas supporters scream at him in response.

What a bizarre world where I am aligned with Speaker Johnson and grateful for his leadership.

This whole protest thing on college campuses is troubling. I follow another internet board with many college student parents who have been posting for months about circumstances being faced by their Jewish children away at college.

I remember there being some obnoxious activists when I was in college but I’m affronted by this whole movement which seems to have a strong pro-Hamas contingent. How can that be?

[Scooter]

I have always believed that one can legitimately protest the actions of Israel without being antisemitic, but that distinction seems to have disappeared in this latest protest movement.

In Canada we have had protestors targeting synagogues and Jewish schools, and/or spouting blatantly anti-Jewish rhetoric. It is making it hard for policy makers to proclaim support for a ceasefire or express any criticism of Israeli tactics or objectives, lest they be accused of siding with those who seek to destroy the Jewish race. Ironically, if the protests would just evaporate, it would make it a lot easier to take a harder line with Israel.

[Econoline]

[Big RR]

Ironically, if the protests would just evaporate, it would make it a lot easier to take a harder line with Israel

Perhaps, but without the public pressure, it will make it a lot easier to just ignore the situation and not take a harder line. Yes, there are a lot of jerks (many of them likely antisemitic) who are protesting the actions of Israel, but most of them are not. The jerks are not doing the other protesters any favors, but the jerks should not be used as an excuse to silence legitimate protest and bury a legitimate position. FWIW, for as long as I can recall, some have sought to brand any criticism of Israel for any reason as antisemitism, hoping to silence it.

[Scooter]

I guess the problem I am having is distinguishing the difference between legitimate protests and jerks. Maybe because the jerks are getting all the publicity, I don't know.

For example, there was a protest at St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York during Easter services. What purpose did that serve? I say that as someone who supported the ACT-UP protests at that same church at the height of the AIDS crisis (because the RC church's position on condoms, etc. made it complicit in AIDS deaths). But in the present case, Pope Francis has been one of the loudest voices decrying the harms inflicted on civilians in Gaza. The target was misplaced, and the protest brought discredit on the cause.

Here in Toronto, and in Montreal, many of the protestors have targeted Jewish, non-Israeli institutions. It has been very ugly. And I have heard nothing from legitimate protestors calling on them to stop, which has allowed the entire protest movement, probably unjustifiably, to be denounced as antisemitic.

[BoSoxGal]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/10/middleea ... index.html


Everyone involved in this conflict is looking less and less sympathetic every day.

I don’t even feel guilty anymore about my wishful thinking regarding the cardiac health of certain elderly men in positions of power in various countries. I don’t discriminate, I’m dreaming of the cardiac failures of Jews, Russians, Chinese, North Korean, Hungarian, German-American, Iranian, Palestinian, Saudi Arabian, Venezuelan, Congolese . . .

[BoSoxGal]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... re_btn_url

[liberty]

The hypocrisy of the protesters for Gaza should be glaring to any thinking person. They are not interested in protecting the people of Gaza; their interest is in saving Hamas. Example, I haven't heard anyone discussing the possibility of evacuating the women and children and other non-combatants. That would never happen because that's not what these people want. I'm sure that US and Europe would be willing to pay for the expense; they could be moved down the coast to Libya and stay in internment camps; they could voluntarily leave Gaza with a guaranteed right of a return. They and their children would be safe until the fighting was over. However, if anyone tried to do that a Hamas would fight tooth and nail to prevent it. They don't want the people to be safe they want them to die and suffer for the glory of Hamas. It kind of reminds me of the ancient Semitic God Baal whose Worshipers burn their children alive to glorify him.

Copilot
"Yes, in ancient times, there were practices of child sacrifice associated with the worship of the Canaanite deity Moloch. Moloch is sometimes considered a variant name for the popular god Baal. The Hebrew Bible explicitly forbade such practices, but some apostate kings in Israel allowed Moloch worship. For instance, King Ahaz and King Manasseh are reported to have worshipped Moloch, even though it was prohibited. The site of Topheth, outside the walls of Jerusalem, was associated with these sacrifices but was eventually destroyed during the reign of King Josiah1. So, while the god Baal himself did not specifically demand child sacrifice, there were instances where people associated with Baal engaged in this tragic practice."

[MajGenl.Meade]

They are not interested in protecting the people of Gaza; their interest is in saving Hamas. Example, I haven't heard anyone discussing the possibility of evacuating the women and children and other non-combatants. That would never happen because that's not what these people want. I'm sure that US and Europe would be willing to pay for the expense; they could be moved down the coast to Libya and stay in internment camps; they could voluntarily leave Gaza with a guaranteed right of a return.

So, if I read this a-right . . . the U.S. and Europe, by not discussing ethnic cleansing in Gaza by shipping all women and children to refugee camps in (say) Libya - or Rwanda if you're UK-centric - are obviously not interested in protecting the people of Gaza. The interest of Europe and the U.S. is to save Hamas.

Since lib will deny that . . . then it must be that the reason that the U.S. and Europe have not done the above is because "these people" don't want to save the people of Gaza. Given the huge number of moronic voters who continue to kiss Trump's donkey, I find it entirely possible that the same morons would happily support the Final Solution proposed by lib.

[Jarlaxle]

At this point, I simply don't give a shit.

[liberty]

They are not interested in protecting the people of Gaza; their interest is in saving Hamas. Example, I haven't heard anyone discussing the possibility of evacuating the women and children and other non-combatants. That would never happen because that's not what these people want. I'm sure that US and Europe would be willing to pay for the expense; they could be moved down the coast to Libya and stay in internment camps; they could voluntarily leave Gaza with a guaranteed right of a return.

So, if I read this a-right . . . the U.S. and Europe, by not discussing ethnic cleansing in Gaza by shipping all women and children to refugee camps in (say) Libya - or Rwanda if you're UK-centric - are obviously not interested in protecting the people of Gaza. The interest of Europe and the U.S. is to save Hamas.

Since lib will deny that . . . then it must be that the reason that the U.S. and Europe have not done the above is because "these people" don't want to save the people of Gaza. Given the huge number of moronic voters who continue to kiss Trump's donkey, I find it entirely possible that the same morons would happily support the Final Solution proposed by lib.

No European nation is discussing it because no one wants to be accused of ethnic cleansing. I not talking about refugee camps but about internment camps. Refugee camp infers that they would free to leave the camp. No nation in the area would agree to that. No one wants Hamas infiltrators in their country moving around among their populations. It won't happen because it would be impractical to move them very far and no nation in the area wants to be an enemy to Hamas. Hamas would never give up their slaves they need them as human shields

In closing let me say, forgive me forgiving a shit I should have known better Hamas is doing God's work and to interfere with that would be a sin.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Hamas is doing God's work and to interfere with that would be a sin.

You are very weird.

[liberty]

Hamas is doing God's work and to interfere with that would be a sin.

You are very weird.

I'm just trying to find common ground surely; we can agree on something.

[Joe Guy]

I'm just trying to find common ground surely; we can agree on something.

'

Meade is serious.

And don't call him Shirley.

[MajGenl.Meade]

I'm just trying to find common ground surely; we can agree on something.

We agree that you want a final solution

And dem you, Joe. Dem you! I wanted to say that!

[Burning Petard]

Everything happens only by God's will. G-d is the creator, designer, prime cause. G-d is all-knowing, all-powerful, all-merciful.

Resistance is futile. The atheist has other opinions, and logically more motivation and responsibilities to change things for the betterment of all.

snailgate.

[Sue U]

Everything happens only by God's will. G-d is the creator, designer, prime cause. G-d is all-knowing, all-powerful, all-merciful.

Resistance is futile.

Eh, depends on your choice of religion and/or god(s).

The atheist has other opinions, and logically more motivation and responsibilities to change things for the betterment of all.

So do those of us who adhere to more practical religious guidance.

[BoSoxGal]

Everything happens only by God's will. G-d is the creator, designer, prime cause. G-d is all-knowing, all-powerful, all-merciful.

Resistance is futile.

Eh, depends on your choice of religion and/or god(s).

The atheist has other opinions, and logically more motivation and responsibilities to change things for the betterment of all.

So do those of us who adhere to more practical religious guidance.

“That which is hateful to you, do not do to another. That is the whole Law. The rest is commentary. Now go and learn.”

“If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am not for others, what am I? And if not now, when?”

Basically all the religious (or secular) advice any human needs to operate ethically in this world.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Good advice from Hillel. Still, Yeshua improved on the first one by making it positive instead of negatie:

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

Doing is so much nicer than not doing.

[liberty]

I'm just trying to find common ground surely; we can agree on something.

We agree that you want a final solution

And dem you, Joe. Dem you! I wanted to say that!

I'm not sure there is a solution final or otherwise to be had; there might be a work in progress, but I don't see how Hamas can be involved in it. Hamas on November the 7th, in my mind, demonstrated they should not be considered human at least no more than subhuman. Perhaps for some here the murder and rape of children and the murder and rape of prisoners in general is an acceptable weapon of war, but not me. I have no personal involvement in this; I just hate all thugs and bullies and tyrants and Hamas has proved what they are.

There could have been peace and a Palestinian homeland a generation ago, but the Palestinians turned it down.