Boston Marathon Bomb Attack?!?!?

[liberty]

Thanks, Crackpot; that was a very interesting insight to a very troubled family. The story we're so used to hearing is about immigrants who come to the US with nothing and through hard work and perseverance ultimately achieve the American Dream. We seldom hear about those who struggle and don't make it, and the terrible consequences of that failure.

We all fail from time to time or at least I have, but that doesn’t mean that we go out and hurt innocent people. I believe that anyone that entered the US legally swore an oath to obey the laws of the country to break that oath would mean a loss of honor. I suspect that it is a concept alien to liberals, but I would die before I would give up my honor; I know what it is to live you without it. Evidently they had no sense honor ; I wonder if it would have made a difference if this point had been emphasized to them early on or if a promise given to an infidel nation has no value..

[Crackpot]

Someone has been overdosing on the stupid pills

[liberty]

Someone has been overdosing on the stupid pills

Please explain. Honor is an old fashioned irrelevant concept?

[MajGenl.Meade]

I would die before I would give up my honor; I know what it is to live you without it

Shouldn't you be dead then?

[liberty]

Thanks, Crackpot; that was a very interesting insight to a very troubled family. The story we're so used to hearing is about immigrants who come to the US with nothing and through hard work and perseverance ultimately achieve the American Dream. We seldom hear about those who struggle and don't make it, and the terrible consequences of that failure.

We all fail from time to time or at least I have, but that doesn’t mean that we go out and hurt innocent people. I believe that anyone that entered the US legally swore an oath to obey the laws of the country to break that oath would mean a loss of honor. I suspect that it is a concept alien to liberals, but I would die before I would give up my honor; I know what it is to live you without it. Evidently they had no sense honor ; I wonder if it would have made a difference if this point had been emphasized to them early on or if a promise given to an infidel nation has no value..

I have to make a correction here: I should have said, “many liberals “ I forgot that Grim is a liberal. He is a man I greatly respect; I believe that he is an honorable man.

[Crackpot]

Fucking moron

[liberty]

I would die before I would give up my honor; I know what it is to live you without it

Shouldn't you be dead then?

It doesn’t count I was a child then; I had a stepfather who I thought was my father; he tried to convince me that I was worthless, I over came it.

[Crackpot]

I'm sure Grim is so pleased to have earned a place as "one of the good ones".

I am amazed by the apparent fact that you are completely oblivious to what a hateful asshole you are.

At least dgs and rubato understand why they are scorned.

[Lord Jim]

At least dgs and rubato understand why they are scorned.

Have to disagree with you about rube...

He has absolutely no clue...

Over and over he's talked about how he never initiates nastiness and how he always responds with less venom than he receives, how he's picked on by a "gang" just because they need "targets for their hate", blah blah blah...

He sees himself as a kind and spiritual soul, and a highly intelligent Renaissance Man who possesses an extraordinary depth of knowledge on a wide range of subjects, as well as a highly developed "social conscience"....

I suspect he believes that he gets the treatment he receives because we're all jealous of his great intellect, material success, and moral clarity...

In other words, he is completely delusional about why he is treated as he is; he has zero understanding regarding it....

[Crackpot]

Oh he knows why. He just thinks his behavior is justified and therefore the response is not. While he may be deluded he isn't so much so to believe that the responses occur completely outside of his provocation

[Lord Jim]

CP, you had asked in another thread about whether or not rube had gotten "worse"...

This is one way in which I believe he definitely has....

It's only been the past few years that rube started up with this surreal nonsense about how he never starts nasty exchanges, etc. Prior to that I had always gotten the impression that you have; that he actually realized what an asshole he is; he never made any attempt to deny it.

When he first started up with this a few years ago, it was so self-evidently outrageous, at first I thought this was his idea of trying to be funny...

Surely no one, I reasoned, could possibly be as big an asshole as rube and not be aware of it...

But he has now kept it up for so long, (and proven himself to be oblivious about so many things that one wouldn't think logically possible) that I believe he may have lost his grip on self-awareness to the point that he might actually have convinced himself that this bizarre fantasy view of his behavior is accurate...

[liberty]

Fucking moron

I would feel like crap if CP were to have a stroke; It is just not worth it, so I will leave this string alone.

I am sorry for offending you CP even though I don’t understand why you were offended. It wouldn’t have bothered me.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Well lib, if you really can't see that your direct characterization of all "liberals" (even if you exempt one) as people without honour is highly offensive (and not just to liberals by the way), then you are either remarkably short-sighted, wondrously dense or not telling the truth. I choose to believe one of the first two.

Your sentences are confusing.

It's important to understand what language says and means. In your final sentence you intended (IMO) "they had no sense of honour" to refer back to the bombers. But the plural noun used immediately prior was "liberals" whom you have just accused of that same failing and before that the subject was "legal immigrants".

No matter what you may have meant, your words appear to MEAN that you accuse liberals of (a) not having the concept of honour explained to them as children and (b) that "promises" made to infidel nation (the USA) do not count amongst liberals. Or you are accusing "legal immigrants" of the same.

In the final analysis, even accusing the bombers as persons having no sense of honour is questionable. What you mean (I assume) is that their sense of honour is not the same as your sense of honour; that what you define as reprehensible is not, apparently, congruent with their own. No matter how many agree with you, the fact is that you make no allowance for other factors and dismiss any serious consideration of the difficulties, the victories and the losses of people confronting an alien culture and how it can indeed go wrong, no matter how well the concept of "honour" is understood.

Meade

[Crackpot]

Thanks Meade but I fear you may be talking to a brick wall. The years to offering leeway and giving the benefit of the doubt have worn on me and I'm just not able to play the game anymore.

[Lord Jim]

Okay, I'll take a turn...

I agree with Meade that the Lib's intent was to say that it is the terrorists who did the bombing who have no honor; I think two things strongly indicate this:

Evidently they had no sense honor ; I wonder if it would have made a difference if this point had been emphasized to them early on or if a promise given to an infidel nation has no value..

It wouldn't make sense for him to be referring to "Liberals" in this instance because presumably they wouldn't be the ones seeing the US as an "infidel nation" and his use of the past tense "had" would seem to indicate he's referring to specific individuals regarding something specific that happened, which would mean he wouldn't be referring to Muslim immigrants in general. (If he were, it would have made more sense to use "have", since there are still plenty of Muslim immigrants around. )

I believe that anyone that entered the US legally swore an oath to obey the laws of the country to break that oath would mean a loss of honor. I suspect that it is a concept alien to liberals

Regarding Liberals, I think what he's saying is not that they "have no honor" per se, but that they don't consider "breaking an oath to obey the laws of the country " to constitute a loss of honor. That is the "concept" he's saying is "alien to liberals" (breaking the oath causes loss of honor) not the concept of honor itself.

Personally, I think he's got the wrong end of the stick there, (I don't think there's evidence to suggest that respect for oaths breaks down on ideological lines; there are plenty of people across the political spectrum that take them seriously and plenty that don't) but I'm reasonably sure that is what he was trying to convey...

[Scooter]

It`s a distinction without a difference. Saying that liberals have no problem with breaking an oath (i.e. their word is meaningless) is just another way of saying they have no honour.

Then again, this is a man who believes that Canada was a Soviet ally during the Cold War, so his mind clearly has no grip on reality whatsoever. He serves no purpose other than to laugh at how his every utterance proves just what a moron he is.

ETA - oh, yeah, and let`s not forget his claim that Europeans don`t eat corn

[Lord Jim]

a man who believes that Canada was a Soviet ally during the Cold War,

Lib, you shouldn't be borrowing rube's history book...

[Big RR]

And back to the OP, Lib, are you saying that any breaking of an oath will involve a "loss of hone", even if it is to achieve a greater good? Would it have been dishonorable to lie and not tell the gestapo about the jews hiding in your building? Or to shield the dissidents from Stalin's men? Both of these would be in contravention of laws that immigrants might well have sworn to protect and uphold (and even citizens were bound to honor). Was it wrong for Christian churches to meet in secret in many countries where those churches were outlawed? Or, using the US, was it dishonorable for blacks and whites to sit together at segregated lunch counters? Were our founding father dishonorable because they chose to break the laws of England and commit armed rebellion against it?

Honor involves much more than blind adherence to arbitrary laws, and breaking a law for a greater good can, IMHO, be quite honorable.

[oldr_n_wsr]

My word is my bond.

[Big RR]

As in James Bond?