Getting vaccinated

[Big RR]

The age of the hospitalized has fallen significantly - medical personnel are reporting the majority are in the late teens to 40s age group because that is where the vaccine is being largely rebuffed.

But what more can be done? They have been offered the vaccine free of charges; many areas have even come up with bonuses (like "a shot and a beer" or lottery tickets) for those being vaccinated, and yet they resist. I'm not so sure culling the herd of tens of thousands of them is really all that bad, and I agree with LR that there is no reason we should inconvenience ourselves to protect them. I'm getting sick and tired of catering to assholes who can't even be bothered to get a vaccine.

Of course, we may have to do so in some areas if the hospitals become overrun with cases, but time will tell.

[Long Run]

It isn’t a minority.

As of 6 a.m. EDT July 26, a total of 163,173,366 Americans had been fully vaccinated, or 49.1 percent of the country's population, according to the CDC's data.

Yes and no. In my county/metro area, the adult rate is 75%+. Nationwide, full adult vaccination is 55% with another 5% partial vaccination. Because there are states that are well below average, as you and other have noted, this means there are areas of high vaccination 65%, 70%, 75% (we can expect that children will be vaccinated along the lines of the adults as the vaccines are shown to be safe for children). In those areas, the feeling is similar to Macron, why should the majority of responsible people continue to sacrifice for the irresponsible?

This is especially true given the current data showing that vaccinated people are at low risk of contracting COVID, even lower risk of significant complications, and even lower risk of asymptomatic transmission of COVID, i.e., there is little to no health benefit for wearing a mask. This means the overwhelming number of people still contracting COVID including the Delta variant is unvaccinated people giving it to other unvaccinated people.

[Big RR]

This means the overwhelming number of people still contracting COVID including the Delta variant is unvaccinated people giving it to other unvaccinated people.

A risk they can easily mitigate by getting vaccinated or, if they persist in being stubborn, by wearing N95 masks in public. Why the vaccinated population should inconvenience themselves for them is beyond me. If they become infected, they have only themselves to blame; (in)actions have conseqeunces.

And FWIW, I say this while I am aware of several close friends and family members who have not been vaccinated (including many who should know better, like two retired RNs) . I don't want to see any of them sick or dead, but they have (or at least should have) the responsibility for the consequences of their choice(s).

[BoSoxGal]

At this moment the issue with the unvaccinated is that they will pass virus around and possibly more variants and eventually variants that the vaccine doesn’t protect against. That’s how virus mutation works.

Also, there are millions of children who can’t be vaccinated and millions of immune compromised adults in whom the vaccine (if they can even have it) doesn’t create adequate immune response. Do we write them off as collateral damage to writing off those pesky vaccine refusers?

[Big RR]

The children is a problem, but trials are progressing and the age is going down and will continue to do so for vaccines. Efforts can and should be stepped up to move this along as quickly as possible recognizing that safety is important. And yes, the immunocompromised,promised are a problem, as they are with many diseases (including annual flu--many of the 50,000+ victims are immunocompromised), they should take the same steps to protect themselves as they do with other diseases.

As for viral mutations, I would worry far more about ex-US infections, where the rates are much higher and the chances of mutation (which will come here) are much higher. We should encourage ex-US vaccination much more as we are a single world and can easily be affected. Here? I don't think that penalizing the vaccinated to protect the unvaccinated encourages it (especially because the CDC is still unsure of transmission of viruses from the vaccinated to the unvaccinated, and also admits it is pretty low if it does occur). If the mutation rate in the US is a concern, perhaps we can get better tracking of vaccines and force the unvaccinated to wear masks, but I guarantee we won't see that; like everything else the government chooses to force the compliance of everyone who comply and do the right things, than to address the real problem.i

[ex-khobar Andy]

Because I am vaccinated I am much less likely to become infected. However, 'less likely' does not equal 'impossible' - if the vaccines at 95% then I have a (0.05 times X)% chance of becoming infected if the local infection rate is X%.

In Jefferson County (i.e., Louisville) we have a population of 767,419 and yesterday 113 new cases were reported. (Per the Johns Hopkins dashboard.) I don't have (or can't find) figures for the month but let's assume that the number is typical and that there are 25 days in a month (figures drop at the weekend) so the monthly new infection rate is (25 x 113) / 767.419 = about 0.4%. So I have about a 0.02% chance of being infected in the next month. That's not a high risk but it's not zero. (Just to give some perspective, there are around 10,000,000 airline [i.e., not civil aviation] flights per year in the US. (FAA figures.) If 0.02% of them crashed, we'd be looking at 2,000 major accidents a year or about 150 a month.)

Worse, and to the point, the vaccine reduces effects in the vaccinated. Of course that's good news. But the reason I say 'worse' is this: if I become infected, it is very likely I will be asymptomatic or only mildly symptomatic. I might be infected and not even know. But asymptomatic people are quite capable of spreading the virus. It is even possible that vaccinated people may become more responsible for transmitting the virus than the unvaccinated.

None of this is an argument for not getting the vaccine. But it is the reason that I continue to wear a mask when I am at the supermarket. I am certain that many of the maskless are also - contrary to CDC and state guidance - unvaccinated but no-one checks.

[Big RR]

Andy--

It is even possible that vaccinated people may become more responsible for transmitting the virus than the unvaccinated.

Do you have a reference for this? I just heard Fauci last night and he said they are not sure what the risk of the vaccinated spreading the virus is, but it is low. This runs counter to that.

[Burning Petard]

It is even possible that the back side of the moon is made of green cheese. After all, no sample of that surface have been delivered to the dairy experts on earth.

When I see 'it is possible" or hear it, I flash back to some program on the History or the Discovery channels that I watched with my spouse, out of politeness and I did not care to watch anything else. In terms of meaningless factoids, it ranks right up there with 'someday we may discover. . . '
which those two channels use with sickening frequency.

snailgate

[ex-khobar Andy]

The 'even possible' bit is my own conclusion from this piece of unpublished research quoted by CDC:

The Centers for Disease Control reversed course Monday and said it now recommends indoor masks for the vaccinated in all areas of the country where COVID infections are surging. CDC director Dr. Rochelle Walensky cited unpublished data from recent days suggesting that vaccinated people may be able to spread the Delta variant just as easily as unvaccinated people. (my added emphasis)

I haven't seen the research quoted by Dr Walensky, but I imagine that they used two groups of patients with and without vaccinations and looked at the viral loads and concluded - 'just as easily' - that they were equal.

In theory at least unvaccinated people are supposed to wear masks when they are out and about while the vaccinated population is allowed to go around unmasked. If there is are two populations with equal viral loads and one is masked and one is not, and we know that masking is primarily to protect the person outside the mask, then it stands to reason that the vaccinated (unmasked) person might be responsible for more transmission than the unvaccinated but masked.

I repeat. This is a theoretical argument and it is not a reason for not wearing masks. It's meant as a note of caution.

[Joe Guy]

Our Constitution Gives Us the Right to Freedom of Expression!

concent.jpg (38.79 KiB) Viewed 1291 times

[Long Run]

In theory at least unvaccinated people are supposed to wear masks when they are out and about while the vaccinated population is allowed to go around unmasked. If there is are two populations with equal viral loads and one is masked and one is not, and we know that masking is primarily to protect the person outside the mask, then it stands to reason that the vaccinated (unmasked) person might be responsible for more transmission than the unvaccinated but masked.

I repeat. This is a theoretical argument and it is not a reason for not wearing masks.

In theory. In reality the responsible person who got vaccinated is far more likely than the irresponsible unvaccinated person to wear a mask and to otherwise socially distance.

[Burning Petard]

I am intrigued by the two signs just above. Does this woman give consent to put her children in car-seats in her car? Does she consent to stopping at red lights?

Is the statement "Zero children have died w/o pre-existing conditions. Is this really true? Now I would consider 'children' anyone under 12 and those should not be vaccinated according to the curren state of medical science. As has been said by some in the motorcycle community, there are some consequences of motorcycle accidents that many would consider worse than death--an 18-year-old paralyzed from a spinal trauma for instance.

Are there none, ZERO, 'long haulers' among the child who have had covid; none who seem to have permanent lung damage or nerve damage that will impact them for the rest of their life?. This is hardly the expected consequence of 'well, yes their asthma did keep them out of most organized sports.' if that was the preisiting condition. and the child is now dead.

snailgate

[Crackpot]

Pre existing conditions could be anything including asthma which is rarely fatal on its own.

[Big RR]

No, she's right; the preexisting condition in every case was that they had to be alive first. No one ever died of covid unless they were alive.

[Crackpot]

That the thing anything and everything is a pre existing condition

[Joe Guy]

Y'all are just lissenin' to them lie-berals.

They's tryin' to infect you with a chip that'll control yer vote.

Don't be a communist!!

[Bicycle Bill]

Y'all are just lissenin' to them lie-berals.

They's tryin' to infect you with a chip that'll control yer vote.

Just saying, that if there WERE such a thing as a microchip that would allow someone to 'control your vote', for example ....
you'd think the Trumptards would allow them to be administered to as many people as possible.  Then all they'd need to do is figure out how to hack control so that the person calling the shots was THEM!!   MWAAAA-HAAA-HAAAA-Haaaaa !!!

Come to think of it, though, pulling off a hack like that would require far more brain power than is to be found among the typical members of Trump's fan base...   Their level of intelligence appears to top out at boats, guns, and pick-up trucks.

-"BB"-

[Econoline]

No caption necessary.

[Sue U]

[ex-khobar Andy]

Another item to add to the vaccination mess, mostly caused by idiots. When I got my jab it was at a center set up for the purpose so people were lining up. They take the first dose out of a vial (Pfizer was 6 doses in a vial IIRC and 7 if they used low dead volume syringes) and toss the vial once it was empty. The vial once out of the freezer and opened had a limited lifetime.

Now you can go to any pharmacy and get a jab. But once they have opened that vial, if they don't use it up within X hours (where X is not very many) they have to toss the rest of the vial.

From a NYT story:

Oregon has reported more than 78,000 doses as nonviable, the “vast majority” of which were unused doses from opened vials, officials said.

Multiply up over the country based on population and that's around 6 million doses. The rest of the word is crying out for vaccine. This was all so predictable. People getting their shots in dribs and drabs = wasted vaccine.

Biden needs to issue some executive orders. I saw something today about whether the airlines require that passengers be inoculated. "That's up to the airlines" say the feds.

N fucking O. Before I fly again for seven hours in a return air tube I want to know that the guy next me has had his shot. The feds should make the requirement; then the airlines can blame the feds if they want to.