But the method of production, if there is a groundswell of desire for it, should be mandated to be disclosed.
If someone was selling non-halal meat as halal, would that not be prosecutable?
What is required on packaging?
name of the food
list of Ingredients
storage Instructions
best before/use by
name and address
nutritional information
quantity
quantitative ingredients declarations (QUID)
special claims
"Special claims" could be expanded to include "Produced by Halal methods" or "slaughtered in a halal environment," for meats.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Scooter wrote:Government legislates on food labelling to list ingredients and nutritional value. Are you aware of any reason that kosher or halal beef isn't really beef, or that its nutritional value is different than beef that has been shot through the head?
Government legislation doesn't even require meat producers to disclose the kinds of antibiotics or other drugs used on the animals they slaughter, nor the type of feed they have been given. But somehow, the fact that Muslims might be eating it is some all important tidbit that MUST be disclosed.
What if I am a racist and demand to know whether black people had ever handled the meat I am about to buy, should that also be required disclosure on a label?
There you go Scoot. Your're trying to turn a 'choice' issue into an 'anti-Muslim' issue. Well done sir!
After a little research...
Acts 15:29 (New International Version)
29You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.
006.121
Eat not of (meats) on which Allah's name hath not been pronounced: That would be impiety. But the evil ones ever inspire their friends to contend with you if ye were to obey them, ye would indeed be Pagans.
Sean wrote:And this is from those who accuse others of religious bigotry...
That would be me. And I'm perfectly fine with the fact that I have a personal bias against idiocy generally and religious idiocy in particular; however, I am not demanding that the government label any particular people or viewpoints as idiotic, nor that it protect me from exposure to idiocy.
Gob wrote: If someone was selling non-halal meat as halal, would that not be prosecutable?
Yes, because it would be fraud. It is an affirmative and material misrepresentation of the product on which its purchasers rely.
Gob wrote:"Special claims" could be expanded to include "Produced by Halal methods" or "slaughtered in a halal environment," for meats.
And certainly that is what is intended by the statute. If a producer chooses to make those claims about its product, it is free to do so in accordance with the law. And if a producer chooses to make the claim "not sacrficied to idols" on its product, then it is also presumably free to do so. However, there is obviously no consumer demand for such claims, except for Sean's idiot friend and her idiot church. And they are presumably free to set up their own private enterprise offering to certify that meatpackers are not sacrificing animals to idols in the production process. Why do you hate the entrepreneurial spirit so much?
Sean wrote:There you go Scoot. Your're trying to turn a 'choice' issue into an 'anti-Muslim' issue. Well done sir!
I call em as I see em.
Now apparently one of these is fine and the other is "idiotic".
And this is from those who accuse others of religious bigotry...
Actually I think BOTH of them are idiotic.
The difference is this: Muslims and Jews are not going around saying, hey, you MUST label the products you sell as NON-kosher or NON-halal, so that we know we should be avoiding them. They stick to products labelled kosher or halal. Ditto your friend. Tell her to buy products labelled NOT OFFERED TO IDOLS if it matters so much to her.
What I am advocating is absolute equality of choice for those who want kosher or halal products and those who wish to avoid them.
"Hang on while I log in to the James Webb telescope to search the known universe for who the fuck asked you." -- James Fell
If there is sufficient popular opinion then it should . I cannot see it happening, in that case, and naturally I would oppose it if it were proposed.
I can see calls for labeling of halal meat, and I do believe that, if it is brought about via the democratic process, I'd have no problem with it in the case of compulsory labeling halal meat.
That is the way democracy works, like it or not, you cannot choose to have a democratic process only for the things you approve of
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
So Scoot, if you really believe that both sides are idiotic why are you only labelling one side as such? You seem to be bending over backwards not so say anything about Muslims which could be considered derogatory.
Do you work for local government in the UK by any chance?
Why is it that when Miley Cyrus gets naked and licks a hammer it's 'art' and 'edgy' but when I do it I'm 'drunk' and 'banned from the hardware store'?
If Muslims were running around saying that all non-halal products had to be labelled "non-halal" by law so they would know to avoid them, then I would most certainly be criticizing them.
But in this case it is only the other side of the equation that is clamoring for such nonsense, so that is whom I am criticizing.
Capeesh?
"Hang on while I log in to the James Webb telescope to search the known universe for who the fuck asked you." -- James Fell
Gob wrote:If there is sufficient popular opinion then it should . I cannot see it happening, in that case, and naturally I would oppose it if it were proposed.
I can see calls for labeling of halal meat, and I do believe that, if it is brought about via the democratic process, I'd have no problem with it in the case of compulsory labeling halal meat.
That is the way democracy works, like it or not, you cannot choose to have a democratic process only for the things you approve of
Then when the democratic process brings back segregated drinking fountains and forces Jews to wear yellow stars, I guess you will be extolling the principles of democracy then as well.
"Hang on while I log in to the James Webb telescope to search the known universe for who the fuck asked you." -- James Fell
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
There is a difference between democracy and tyranny of the mob. Thoughtless capitulation to ill-considered popular prejudice is not the mark of a democratic society -- at least not one that has any care to safeguard against oppression of minorities.
Since when is food labelling done via "the democratic process?" It is a health, safety, and quality issue, subject to mandatory regulations -- which are issued by the appropriate governmental agency. Not done via a ballot box.
Last edited by Guinevere on Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké
Gob wrote:Yes I will. Until we come up with a better one.
Or until the day comes when Muslims are a majority in the UK and everyone is FORCED to eat halal meat.
Lets see how much you enjoy mob rule then
Exactly right! Democracy as "mob rule" LOL!!
So your alternative to democracy is?
And why is it ok for Halal product to be labeled as so in the USA but not in the UK?
(oh, and I no longer live in the UK, remember?)
BTW; , New Zealand, Sweden, Switzerland, Norway and Iceland have all banned the practice of Halal slaughter, all I'm asking for a is clear labeling of it.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Muslims themselves are asking for government support in labeling of halal in ...errrmmmm... Canada
Members of the Muslim council floated the idea of lobbying the city of Montreal along with Quebec's Agriculture Department to arm government food inspectors with the authority to fine stores caught carrying false halal products.
They also discussed the idea of starting a halal certification body recognized by the Muslim council.
Hélène Trépanier of the Agriculture Department said its inspectors are present for halal slaughters in meat facilities, but have no authority to certify the meat is being properly handled according to strict Islamic rules.
But Trépanier said there is room in Quebec law to accommodate a system for a specific type of food certification.
To get the process moving, Elmenyawi said, the Muslim council will have to prepare a proposal for Quebec.
Fucking racist Canadian Muslims against Muslims, next thing they'll be demanding no blacks handle their food, mob rule will be the only outcome.
Democracy? Shit......
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Gob wrote:Fucking racist Canadian Muslims against Muslims, next thing they'll be demanding no blacks handle their food, mob rule will be the only outcome.
It's the difference between requiring a food producer to prove the affirmative claims which it CHOOSES to make, vs. imposing fascistic regulations to REQUIRE producers to make claims it has chosen not to make.
Face it, you've been flopping around like a fish on a dock on this issue even since your assertion that halal slaughter is inhumane were COMPLETELY undercut by the scientific research which was presented in about the first five posts of the thread.
"Hang on while I log in to the James Webb telescope to search the known universe for who the fuck asked you." -- James Fell
Gob wrote:BTW; , New Zealand, Sweden, Switzerland, Norway and Iceland have all banned the practice of Halal slaughter.
In most of those cases bans on ritual slaughter were put in place in the 1920s and 30s, a period when anti-semitism was rampant. If you don't see the connection, well...
"Hang on while I log in to the James Webb telescope to search the known universe for who the fuck asked you." -- James Fell
Gob wrote:Fucking racist Canadian Muslims against Muslims, next thing they'll be demanding no blacks handle their food, mob rule will be the only outcome.
It's the difference between requiring a food producer to prove the affirmative claims which it CHOOSES to make, vs. imposing fascistic regulations to REQUIRE producers to make claims it has chosen not to make.
Face it, you've been flopping around like a fish on a dock on this issue even since your assertion that halal slaughter is inhumane were COMPLETELY undercut by the scientific research which was presented in about the first five posts of the thread.
Lets face it, you haven't given a coherent reason why it should not.
Would it be ok in your view for meat NOT produced by the halal method to be labeled as "not halal"?
The only evidence to support the idea that halal is not cruel comes from your unsourced paper which seems to have been translated from the German.
Not relay credible evidence.
Again, if the USA can require halal meat to be labeled as such, why is it wrong for others to have this knowledge?
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
