Gun safety?

[oldr_n_wsr]

At the very least, I think anyone buying a gun/rifle should have to take a gun safety coarse. I had to take one to get a hunting license which covered both handguns (which are next to impossible to get a license for here in NY) and rifles/shotguns. Background checks don't seem to much of an impediment to normal people trying to buy a gun, but that depends on what they are checking for. I don't know all the types of crimes that make up a "felony conviction" but I would guess there are some that should not stop someone from getting a gun. I could be wrong on that position though. Mental illness should keep many from getting a gun but again it is a broad term with many things making up mental illness. Some should prevent gun ownership but other should not.

[wesw]

well, almost everyone I know who has a gun, has taken a gun safety course, or hunter safety course, as did you. nothing wrong with that , but in many areas gun safety is taught by parents at an early age.

my son was never allowed to point even a toy gun in the direction of me or any adult. it became second nature to him to treat even a pistol shaped stick as a deadly weapon. I didn t go so far as to stop him playing cops and robbers with his friends, but he was taught respect for guns early and often. some house wife who touches a gun for the first time when she buys it scares me too. evolution must take its course tho. those who text and drive or get drunk and drive or give a two year old access to a loaded, cocked gun will not reproduce as successfully, as many of them will perish early, and we will become better as a species

[wesw]

....and now I get deer meat!!!!!

[Gob]

gob, you never addressed my question about why you feel ok about having your gun, but don t want others to have one.
please explain your logic on that.

My point wasn't about me being ok to own a gun,* it was about a woman having a gun in her purse to go shopping. What sort of barbarous land must she live in to need that?


*I let my shotgun license lapse when I emigrated, as I have no access to wildfowling her.

[BoSoxGal]

She might be safe inside the Walmart, Gob, but with so many gun nuts running around northern Idaho, she might very well have needed that handgun to prevent a carjacking or something of the like.

Or not.

On this issue I am torn; I have my own concealed weapons permit, but I've never actually carried, precisely because of the stats on guns and accidents. If I were on a road trip alone or with just my dogs, I would carry then. But out and about around town? No need. If I had a small child, I wouldn't carry, or I would only carry a firearm while utilizing the most stringent safety guidelines.

Basically, this woman's new concealed carry purse - her husband's Christmas present to her - is what killed her. Presumably she was carrying on her person before getting the purse, and obviously you'd notice your toddler trying to touch your firearm if it was affixed to your belt or body in a holster. Obviously she should have kept the purse on her person at all times, toddler in tow or not. Having a concealed weapon in your purse and leaving it unattended anywhere but inside your own home is very irresponsible.

There was a case last year (or the year before?) in Ellsworth, Maine where a retired LEO with a concealed carry permit left his loaded revolver on the back of the toilet in an LL Bean bathroom, during the busy holiday season. Luckily, it was found and brought to store staff before anything bad happened - but imagine a young kid using the bathroom and finding that gun? Most parents I know let their kids as young as 5, 6, 7, etc. use the bathroom alone.

[wesw]

gob, remember how that Pakistani ring of hoodlums were victimizing young girls in Britain???

barbarism is everywhere.

we have drug cartels running rampant, heroin is everywhere, nutcases abound.

I hear about horrible crimes in and around wal marts fairly often.

if it matters, I agree that the woman in question was not someone who should have had a gun, but we can t cure stupid

[Gob]

Yes I do, and I agree with you that barbarism is everywhere. But I do not think an armed population is the answer to that.

If it were the USA would be the most peaceful place on the planet, instead;

[wesw]

well, I think that your analogy is flawed but I appreciate that we can debate the topic civilly.

[Gob]

In what way flawed Wes , you with all your guns have a murder rate over twice that of the UK.

[wesw]

ok gob. see Switzerland down there at the bottom?

and could you please find the rate in the U.S. in say, the 60 s or the 70 s, when we were basically a homogenous culture? hell, go back to the fifties and you ll see even lower numbers I d think.

and your chart is of gun murder rates. wouldn t total murder rates be a more accurate measure?

charts and graphs are too subjective to be trusted too much

[Gob]

In other words you will not accept any evidence outside of your own prejudices.

The first chart I posted was of total murder rates.

[Gob]

Wes, how about you find some evidence to disprove what I have said?

[BoSoxGal]

wesw, violent crime rates in the US are on the decline since the 60s/70s.

Is it your assertion that our multi-cultural society (which, by the way, has been that way a really long time - not just the past 50 years) contributes to violent crime?

[wesw]

the chart says gun murder rates. I think I ll bow out of this conversation now.

[BoSoxGal]

and could you please find the rate in the U.S. in say, the 60 s or the 70 s, when we were basically a homogenous culture? hell, go back to the fifties and you ll see even lower numbers I d think.

and your chart is of gun murder rates. wouldn t total murder rates be a more accurate measure?

Here s the bit I m responding to.

Does that help explain my questions?

eta: (see how that works?) I think my questions were relevant, but if you would prefer not to discuss, that s fine, too.

[Guinevere]

Yes I do, and I agree with you that barbarism is everywhere. But I do not think an armed population is the answer to that.

If it were the USA would be the most peaceful place on the planet, instead;

Wes - as Gob said -- his first chart says HOMICIDE rates.

So, where is your evidence that unregulated gun ownership (and, btw, please drop the crap that anyone wants to take guns away and end private gun ownership, that's a total strawman) makes people safer?

[MajGenl.Meade]

Who the hell sleeps with a gun in the bed, wakes up at 4 a.m. and decides to "move" the gun in the opposite direction to one of its bullets (or possibly two)?

(CNN) -- The police chief in an upscale community outside Atlanta said he was sleeping when he moved a gun in the bed and accidentally shot his wife in the back, according to a 911 tape released Friday.

"Who shot her?" the 911 operator asked William McCollom, the police chief in Peachtree City, Georgia.

"Me," McCollom replied.

"How did you shoot her?"

"The gun was in the bed, I went to move it, put it to the side, and it went off," McCollom said.

"Is she awake?"

"No, everybody was sleeping," McCollom said.

"No, is she awake now?"

"Yes," he said.

Later in the call, the operator asked McCollom, "Were you asleep also when this happened?"

"Yes," he said.

Margaret McCollom, 58, was listed in critical condition Friday at Atlanta Medical Center, according to the hospital.

William McCollom, 57, has not been charged with a crime, but he has been put on administrative leave while the shooting is investigated by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation.

McCollom started out the 911 call by describing the problem: "Gunshot wound, accidental, need medical ASAP." He made the call to 911 about 4 a.m. Thursday. He didn't mention he was the top law enforcement officer in the town of 35,000 people until the 1:50 mark in the six-minute recording.

The 911 operator asked where the gun was located. At first McCollom said he didn't know, then said, "I'm the chief of police. The gun is on the dresser."

"You're the chief of police in Peachtree City?" the operator asked.

"Yeah, unfortunately, yes," McCollom said. 'Come on, guys, get here'

In a statement released Friday, the GBI said: "Chief McCollom has been cooperating with GBI agents working the investigation. Ms. McCollom will be interviewed when her medical condition improves. When the GBI completes the investigation, it will be turned over to Fayette County District Attorney Scott Ballard."

At one point in the recording, the operator asked, "Is that her crying?" A woman's moans can be heard in the background.

"Yes, she's having trouble breathing," McCollom said. At another point, McCollom addresses his wife, "Are you having trouble breathing, dear?"

"Come on, guys, get here," he says while waiting for the police and ambulance. "Oh my god, how did this happen?"

When the police arrive, McCollom can be heard telling them the gun is on the dresser. The 911 operator ended the call. Authorities aren't revealing many details, but said in a Thursday press conference that McCollom shot his wife with his service Glock 9mm.

McCollom told the 911 operator he had shot his wife twice, but the GBI said investigators determined she'd only been shot once.

[BoSoxGal]

He didn't wake up, according to him, until she was shot.

He slept with his gun under the pillow and while asleep, he discharged it into his wife's back.

Another horrific example of poor firearm handling in terms of safety; any idiot knows that you don't sleep with a gun in the bed. In a bedside table drawer with safety on is close enough for protection.


eta: Reading the article again, I see he said both that he was asleep when it happened, and that he woke up and 'went to move it'.

Interesting fodder for defense and prosecution to argue in court.

I'm guessing he didn't wake up fully to the point that moving the gun was a knowing and purposeful action, but rather still hazy with sleep he moved the gun and its firing was what brought him fully awake. He's just not describing it terribly well on 911 what with the wife moaning and crying and bleeding in the background.

[Big RR]

Or it's an interesting defense for trying to kill his wife.

[BoSoxGal]

I thought about that, because LEOs do have 2x the national rate of domestic violence, and lots of cops have killed their spouses with duty weapons . . .

I certainly hope he was just stupid and not a murderous bastard. Presumably there is evidence of DV in the relationship that would clarify things whether or not the wife survives her wounds.