Active Shooter Situation in CA

[wesw]

and jim, it was crabby patties, and spongebob squarepants cooked them to perfection.

I really need to go jelly fishing.....

[wesw]

oh, and every stat or study or intelligence report or health care plan or press release that your precious Obama admin has put out in the last seven years has been a lie or manipulation of truth to fit the desired result

I don t know if I m the only one who doesn t believe a word that Obama or Hillary says, but I kinda doubt it.

there is a revolt brewing in your precious party, and it will be led by honest democrats

you ll be tasked with destroying diane Feinstein and tulsi gabard soon, maybe you ve already gotten your marching orders from your chairwoman Mao..., debbie washerwoman-Schultz....

[wesw]

we really need to devolve power back to the states to a large extent.

the govt no longer represents the people, on either side. dems and repubs are mostly bought and paid for.

Obama bred trump s success and he bred division and racial discord.

thanks Obama!!!!, you snotty little spoiled prick. your too cool for school asshole is a racist bigot who lies everytime his lips move, unless they are kissing theocratic asses, then his worm tongue snakes out and cleanses the dingleberries from their very assholes, all the while whispering sweet nothings into their murderous colons

[Guinevere]

And still, not one fact in support of his positions.

[wesw]

ok, you got me. spongebob did not actually cook for me.....

[Jarlaxle]

Given what's publicly known so far, it's very puzzling...

On the one hand, as I pointed out it would be extremely unusual for somebody with a beef at his work place to be able to enlist two other people to help him massacre his co-workers...

On the other hand, if this is some sort of Islamist terrorist thing, it's also been reported that the assailants walked past a bunch people and specifically targeted the people in this room on the second floor...

Islamist terrorists are generally looking for the highest possible body count, and they could have killed more people than they did...

Of course they may have been concerned about the time factor and being able to get away before the cops arrived, (since they were not planning to perish at the scene) so perhaps they went straight to the room where they knew there would be the largest concentration of people, did their shooting as quickly as possible, and then ran out...

Could be..."evil" does not mean "idiot". It clearly failed, but they obviously had a pretty well-thought-out plan for attack,evasion, and escape.

[Lord Jim]

It clearly failed, but they obviously had a pretty well-thought-out plan for attack,evasion, and escape.

But then all of a sudden they hit the stupid button and just start driving around a locked down San Bernadino with a huge police presence, in their black SUV....There was no way they were going too be able to find another target rich opportunity in San Bernadino at that moment for a second attack...If they'd intended that, they should already have had a second target picked out and gone there immediately from the mental health center...

Why didn't they lay low or get out of the immediate area? Why didn't they have a plan to switch cars? If they were intending to do a second attack, why didn't they conduct it either immediately, or wait a while, or go some place else? They had plenty of time to get on the highway and be over 100 miles away from the site of the attack before the dragnet in San Bernadino was in place...

If they'd had an after-action plan with the same level of organization and planning as everything up to that point, those are the sorts of things they would have done...

It reminds me of the Boston Bombing in this respect:

The planning, carrying out, and immediate escape are all well thought out, but after that not so much...

This suggests to me that they may have had guidance/help for the planning, execution and escape, but after that they were relying on their own intelligence about what to do next, and that didn't work out real well for them...

Baccari described Farook as reserved and said he showed no signs of unusual behavior. Earlier this year he flew to Saudi Arabia and returned with a wife, later growing a beard, Baccari said



Apparently that's not unusual - flying to Saudi Arabia and returning with a wife. I guess he made a habit of it

What? You've never done that?

That trip goes a long way in my mind to greatly increasing the likelihood that this was an act of Islamist terrorism...Perhaps he began by self radicalizing through the internet and then kicked it up a notch with some direct contact...

The FBI also appears to be moving closer and closer to the terrorist attack conclusion. Earlier yesterday they were saying that they wouldn't rule it out, most recently they've been saying that they're not ready to definitely say that was it the motive but that "several things point to it"....

[MajGenl.Meade]

What do we know for sure about this horrible event?

The attackers were Muslim
They both recently spent time in Saudi Arabia
The solution is to blame the NRA and ban guns

Oh and wesw - when you were first on this board you wrote like a dumb hick. Mockery was unavoidable .

Your writing skills began to improve as you made an effort to get rid of the schtick you'd started with - you've made some cogent points and a couple of witty jokes. (It was noticed)

Now you've morphed into a bar room moaner with an IQ lower than the alcohol percentage in your beer and arguments (no... knee jerk statements) to match.

You of course have a right to do and say what you please. But your license to be a foul-mouth jerk does not mean you get to parade that shit in front of other people. So cut it out. You're in danger of becoming boring and unreadable. That would be a pity

[Lord Jim]

I heard an interesting theory being discussed yesterday, that this could be both Islamist terrorism and work place violence...

That Farook and his wife had decided to carry out an Islamist terrorist attack, but that this particular target was chosen because he was not particularly fond of his co-workers...

Of course it could also be the case that they picked this target because he knew the layout, the best way to get in and out quickly, knew there was no security they would have to get through, and knew that there would be a large concentration of people congregated in one room. (Apparently they also left behind explosive devices that were supposed to increase the carnage in other parts of the building but they failed to go off.)

If it is ultimately determined to have been an act of Islamist terrorism, I wonder if Obama and the Attorney General and the rest of the Administration flacks will be as straight forward about naming it for what it is and condemning it specifically as such as they were in the Planned Parenthood case, or if we'll just get another "gun violence" lecture and vague bromides about a "horrible criminal act"...

Well okay, full disclosure...

I don't really "wonder" that....

I'm pretty sure of the answer

[Big RR]

Well Jim, the attack on the Planned Parenthood center was terrorism in that it was calculated to discourage people from going near such centers, working there, etc. What is the message intended here (if it is terrorism)--discouraging centers for developmentally disabled people?

[Lord Jim]

What is the message intended here

I think that's pretty obvious:

"We're here, active in this country and you are not safe anywhere. You will not know who we are until we strike, and any place you go could be a target"....

Sounds like a pretty powerful terrorist message to me...

[MajGenl.Meade]

The same as the motive for crashing planes into a building. Clue: that was not "to make people afraid of tall buildings". The object in Spain, England, France, Lebanon and the USA is to kill citizens and any collateral foreigners who happen to be in the LOF.

[Big RR]

True Meade--but all of the attacks were in big public venues which were targeted to tell people you are unsafe--don't go to soccer matches, concerts etc.; or targeted against a target which was somewhat representative of us--like the pentagon or the WTC. This is targeting of a pretty private venue to make that statement, and I don't think it would be all that effective.

Jim--perhaps, but targeting a private place of business most people would not enter does not appear to deliver that message too loudly.

Face it, do either of you feel any less safe after this attack than before it?

[MajGenl.Meade]

I've been wondering over the reason that mass murderers pick crowded places with lots of unsuspecting people in them!

Now we know why these kinds of people don't pick just one random person, shoot that person multiple times, and then blow themselves up.

Thanks Big RR

And no, I don't feel less safe either over this or the Paris thing, London thing, Madrid thing, etc. Honesty compels me to add that I have decided to avoid Planned Parenthood clinics, a Mediterranean cruise, flying via Dubai (or anywhere near the ME) and Christmas parties.

[Jarlaxle]

True Meade--but all of the attacks were in big public venues which were targeted to tell people you are unsafe--don't go to soccer matches, concerts etc.; or targeted against a target which was somewhat representative of us--like the pentagon or the WTC. This is targeting of a pretty private venue to make that statement, and I don't think it would be all that effective.

Jim--perhaps, but targeting a private place of business most people would not enter does not appear to deliver that message too loudly.

Face it, do either of you feel any less safe after this attack than before it?

No, but I find myself wondering what the state will now do to "protect" me.

[Big RR]

you're too kind!

As for shooting one person a number of times, it would depend who that person was, wouldn't it?

[liberty]

If you want to do something about the availability of guns, how about this as a first step: Pass a law empowering gun dealers to deny a gun sale to anyone they wish for any reason they wish. It would not matter if the reason for the sale being denied was racist, homophobic, xenophobic or religious bigotry no such claim could place the dealer’s license in jeopardy. However, an unreasonable history of the gun dealer’s guns being used in violent crime could place his license at risk.

[MajGenl.Meade]

you're too kind!

As for shooting one person a number of times, it would depend who that person was, wouldn't it?

gasp! They've actually done that - who was it?

[Lord Jim]

Face it, do either of you feel any less safe after this attack than before it?

Well, I certainly don't feel any less safe because a clinically paranoid, malignant narcissist acting entirely alone with no co-cospirators or ties to any group, (and no international organization designed to provide support and encouragement for violence) attacking a Planned Parenthood location... (Which btw, would also qualify as a "private business" that "most people" never have occasion to go too...)

As for this case, whether or not I personally will feel at least marginally "less safe" will depend on the facts that are unearthed and to what extent it appears that there are more folks preparing to conduct similar attacks at other public place targets of opportunity...

Frankly, the recent undermining of The Patriot Act, (particularly the damage done to the metadata gathering program and the FISA procedures) makes me feel considerably "less safe" then either of these attacks...

[BoSoxGal]

Kudos to the Daily News for calling it like it is!: