King Tut

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wesw
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Re: King Tut

Post by wesw »

I m glad that you got that off your chest sue....

..., but a simple exclamation of "what a bunch of horseshit!", would have sufficed.... :)


liberty, if you want the purest form of homo sapiens, you would have to go to sub Saharan Africa..., they are the only ones who don t have any neanderthal in them....

wesw
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Re: King Tut

Post by wesw »

....don t grab a bushman tho, they gots other stuff in them....

Big RR
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Re: King Tut

Post by Big RR »

What "color" were/are they? In what way is it significant?
This pretty much says it all. :ok

rubato
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Re: King Tut

Post by rubato »

liberty wrote:There is a lot of dispute about this: I bet Afro-centric scholars are calling it an out and out lie. Well, science works like this: If it is true it can be proven, test it again. And if it is true it would not be a great surprise. All related people have a common ancestor. All Caucasians have a common ancestor the same as humans have a common ancestor and all members of a family have a common ancestor. The majority of ancient Egyptians were Caucasian, that is not to say white as that refers to aboriginal Europeans.

Afro-centric scholars claim that ancient Egyptians were a black people, but ancient Egyptian wall paintings and hair studies of Egyptian mummies demonstrate that they were predominately a non Negroid people.


Scientists at Zurich-based DNA genealogy center, iGENEA, have reconstructed the DNA profile of King Tut, his father Akhenaten and grandfather Amenhotep III.

Researchers discovered that King Tut belonged to a genetic profile group known as haplogroup R1b1a2. More than 50 per cent of all men in Western Europe belong to this genetic group as do up to 70 per cent of British men.
... "

First of all, why do you think that a genetic marker is the be-all end-all important fact of identity? Language, religion, culture, values, and geography are more important to many. Personally, I have felt more kinship with an educated black liberal or with my extended family from Ethiopia than a racist white person. Identity is more a matter of affirmation and myth than it is a matter of descent and historical fact. White southerners today lie and claim that their ancestors fought for a 'failed but noble cause'. They didn't, they fought to perpetuate an evil institution because they wanted to continue to murder, torture, and rape black people without hindrance.


Secondly, why are you so proud of a marker which originates in asia? I understand that all of the important religions originate in Asia, Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Islam, Sikhism, Jainism, Shintoism and Christianity so I guess that's why you want to suck up, right? BTW you do know that Ethiopia has been Christian for centuries longer than most of Northern Europe?


And finally, you DO understand that all of the human race began in Africa and the branches which have come out of Africa have differentiated mostly by subtraction, to a lesser degree by mutation and still lesser by interbreeding with Neanderthals (your European ancestors fucked Neanderthals); Europeans and east Asians are lesser genetically than Africans because they have lost more genetic material. The reason that Africa was explored and mapped so late in history is because Europeans died when they tried to live there, they lacked the genetic ruggedness to survive such a challenging environment. Go read about the explorers and you will read account after account where an expedition took off from the coast and within two years all the Europeans were dead.


Africans are entitled to see themselves as connected to the accomplishments of Egypt because that is a part of human history; and they are humans. They are entitled to see themselves as connected to the Apollo missions, the discovery of DNA, the development of quantum theory as much as you are.


yrs,
rubato

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TPFKA@W
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Re: King Tut

Post by TPFKA@W »

The more I look back through the comments here the more I wonder why this racist POS is being cut so much slack by some of the more liberal members of this board? Why would you encourage this kind of blatant racism?

wesw
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Re: King Tut

Post by wesw »

oh , I don t think that liberty has been cut much slack, no one has done anything much but rebuke him, some gently, some with humor, some frankly, some brutally.

love beats hate, even if it has to beat it to death on some unfortunate occasions.... (see Nazi Germany),

I see no evidence that liberty is whole heartly and purposefully embracing hatred and evil, so love it is.....

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: King Tut

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Big RR wrote:
What "color" were/are they? In what way is it significant?
This pretty much says it all. :ok
... and that would be a bingo!
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

liberty
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Re: King Tut

Post by liberty »

TPFKA@W wrote:The more I look back through the comments here the more I wonder why this racist POS is being cut so much slack by some of the more liberal members of this board? Why would you encourage this kind of blatant racism?
What have I said that is racist? In your mind it is racist to disagree with afrocentric scholars or proponents. Do you consider yourself a typical liberal? Is there any assertion made by any afro centric that you would disagree with?
Soon, I’ll post my farewell message. The end is starting to get close. There are many misconceptions about me, and before I go, to live with my ancestors on the steppes, I want to set the record straight.

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Re: King Tut

Post by liberty »

Was this a racist movie; black actor were not used to play the Egyptian roles:

Exodus: Gods and Kings


The Sydney Morning Herald and Christian Today reported that the casting of white actors in the lead roles was being protested.[66][67] Four white actors were cast to play the lead roles (Hebrew and ancient Egyptian characters): Christian Bale as Moses, Joel Edgerton as Ramses II, Sigourney Weaver as Queen Tuya, and Aaron Paul as Joshua. The Sydney Morning Herald also reported the online community's observations that the Great Sphinx of Giza in the film has a European profile.[66] Christian Today reported that an online petition was under way. It also compared Exodus to the 1956 film The Ten Commandments with its all-white cast and said, "The racial climate, number of black actors, and opportunities provided to them were very different in 1956, however."[67] Some Twitter users called for a boycott of the film.[68][69]
More so, Forbes' Scott Mendelson said that the film didn't need to be "whitewashed" and stated that "Even if we accept the argument that Moses had to be played by a world-renowned movie star and that in all likelihood that meant a white actor, I do not accept the idea that the rest of the main cast needed to be filled out with Caucasian actors of varying recognizability."[70]
Scott responded that without the casting of big-name actors, the film would never have been made, by saying "I can't mount a film of this budget...and say that my lead actor is Mohammad so-and-so from such-and-such...I'm just not going to get financed",[71][72] and that those seeking to boycott the movie on such grounds should "get a life."[
Soon, I’ll post my farewell message. The end is starting to get close. There are many misconceptions about me, and before I go, to live with my ancestors on the steppes, I want to set the record straight.

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Crackpot
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Re: King Tut

Post by Crackpot »

liberty wrote:
TPFKA@W wrote:The more I look back through the comments here the more I wonder why this racist POS is being cut so much slack by some of the more liberal members of this board? Why would you encourage this kind of blatant racism?
What have I said that is racist? In your mind it is racist to disagree with afrocentric scholars or proponents. Do you consider yourself a typical liberal? Is there any assertion made by any afro centric that you would disagree with?
Your wig line is a good place to start.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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Lord Jim
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Re: King Tut

Post by Lord Jim »

In your mind it is racist to disagree with afrocentric scholars or proponents.
Geez, that strawman again... :roll:

Lib you clearly haven't read Meade's posts, or my posts, (or @W's posts for that matter) if you think people here consider you to be a racist based on just what you have said in this one thread....

Either that or you're willfully ignoring the point that's been made over and over about how it's your pattern of posting about things related to race over a long period of time that has created this impression...

I'm coming to the conclusion at this point that it's the latter...

Meade and I have both very patiently and in detail, attempted to explain to you what the the REAL issue is regarding why people here think you are a racist, (and as I'm sure you know, neither the General nor myself are likely to be mistaken for liberals...and @W isn't a liberal either...she's probably one of the least "ideological" posters here...) but instead you continue to act as though the issue is the strawman of this one single thread...

I've really bent over backwards to try and give you the benefit of the doubt regarding your awareness of what the real issue is, but for you to post this:
liberty wrote:
TPFKA@W wrote:The more I look back through the comments here the more I wonder why this racist POS is being cut so much slack by some of the more liberal members of this board? Why would you encourage this kind of blatant racism?
What have I said that is racist? In your mind it is racist to disagree with afrocentric scholars or proponents. Do you consider yourself a typical liberal? Is there any assertion made by any afro centric that you would disagree with?
after everything that has been posted here explaining what the real issue is, as far as I'm concerned, you've pretty much eliminated the doubt I was trying to give you the benefit of...

If you read @W's posts, (which I'm sure you did) you have to know that her calling you a racist involves A LOT more, than that you "disagree with afrocentric scholars or proponents"...

It's pretty clear that the reason you wrote the post I just quoted was to simply further rattle her cage. (Probably because you don't like the blunt tone she's taken regarding the real issue )

I am reluctantly coming to the same conclusion that Big RR expressed; that you know exactly what you're doing, and you are doing it deliberately...
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Lord Jim
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Re: King Tut

Post by Lord Jim »

Re the OP topic:
In fact, the Egyptian civilization had its earliest origins in the Stone Age and arose as a "state" culture on the Upper Nile (Kush/Nubia) nearly 6,000 years ago. From its inception, it traded broadly (and was therefore in constant cross-cultural contact) throughout the region -- on both sides of the Red Sea, up and down the Nile and throughout the Levant and interior Africa. By the time of Tutankhamen, the Egyptian empire itself extended from what are now Ethiopia and South Sudan to Syria and Iran. Over the course of 3500+ years, the pharaohs themselves descended from many different genealogical lineages, no doubt bearing traces of many human sub-populations both within and from outside the empire.
This.


Something I do find interesting about this is the role that climate change apparently played in the initial rise of pharonic civilization. From what I've read, about 7,500 years ago a slight change in the earth's rotational tilt, (which happens in roughly 100,000 year cycles) shifted the monsoon rain patterns in Africa to the south, transforming the lush grassland environment of Egyptian Sahara region into an inhospitable desert environment. This in turn drove the tribal populations that had been spread out over a large area into the Nile valley where pharonic civilization arose.

So I suppose the first "Egyptians" as we understand the concept, were comprised of whatever "ethnicity" or "ethnicities" that these tribes belonged to. But as Sue has pointed out, over the course of 3500 years of expansion, (and periods of decline) peoples from all over Northern Africa would be incorporated into into the Egyptian "gene pool"...

Additionally, The Ancients, (not the Egyptians, not the Greeks, not the Romans) had no conception within their societies of what today we would call "race". Again as Sue pointed out, this whole racial division and hierarchy system is a fairly recent development, dating only back to the 1700s.

So a discussion of whether or not the ancient Egyptians were "white" or "black" is both meaningless and ignorant.
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wesw
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Re: King Tut

Post by wesw »

jim, the spread of peoples and civilizations and the ebb and flow of races and cultures, and the intellectual interest in these events and trends and the people and peoples that they involved is not inherently racist. it is history.

...and your statement about racial hierarchies only dating to the 1700 s is just silly, and incorrect.

...and liberty has been very careful not say anything OVERTLY racist, he just dances about the edges and watches you guys fall all over yourselves trying to distance yourself from reality.

amusing, how he yanks yer chains...

Pavlov would be proud..., WOOF WOOF!

watch this....

I like white people!

(plan b, release the hounds!)

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Lord Jim
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Re: King Tut

Post by Lord Jim »

..and your statement about racial hierarchies only dating to the 1700 s is just silly, and incorrect.
You just pulled a rube move there wes; posting something you thought (wrongly) to be true without bothering to check your facts first:
The contemporary scholarly consensus is that the concept of race is a modern phenomenon, at least in the west (Europe, the Americas, and North Africa). Indeed, the oppression and conflict associated with racism clearly predate the biological conception of race (Zack 2002, 7). Neither the ancient Greeks and Romans nor the medieval Jews, Christians and Muslims sought to classify humans into discrete racial categories. In the ancient Greco-Roman world, phenotypical differences such as skin color and hair texture were noticed but did not ground discrete categories of biological difference.

Nor did the physical differences today associated with race connote differences in character or culture; as ethnocentric as the Greeks and Romans were, the political affiliations of citizenship were their primary human divisions (Blum 2002, 110). Even Aristotle’s famous distinction between Greek and Barbarian is thought of as a distinction based not on race but on the practical distinction between those people who organize themselves into the political communities of city-states (Greeks) and those who do not (Barbarians) (Hannaford 1996, 43–57; Simpson 1998, 19).

The Romans, in turn, differentiated themselves from other groups not through biological race but through the differing legal structures through which they organized their collective lives (Hannaford 1996, 85). For the medieval followers of occidental, monotheistic religions, the primary boundaries among humans lay between believers and non-believers, with the implicit assumption among Christians and Muslims that any human being was capable to being converted into the fold of believers. Even the Jewish distinction between goyim and Jew reflected a difference in faith, not in blood (Hannaford 1996, 88)....

...While events in the Iberian peninsula may have provided the initial stirrings of proto-racial sentiments, the philosophical concept of race did not actually emerge in its present form until the 1684 publication of “A New Division of the Earth” by Francois Bernier (1625–1688) (Bernasconi and Lott 2000, viii; Hannaford 1996, 191, 203). Based on his travels through Egypt, India, and Persia, this essay presented a division of humanity into “four or five species or races of men in particular whose difference is so remarkable that it may be properly made use of as the foundation for a new division of the earth” (Bernasconi and Lott 2000, 1–2).

First were the peoples inhabiting most of Europe and North Africa, extending eastward through Persia, northern and central India, and right up to parts of contemporary Indonesia. Despite their differing skin tones, these peoples nevertheless shared common physical characteristics, such as hair texture and bone structure. The second race was constituted by the people of Africa south of the Sahara desert, who notably possessed smooth black skin, thick noses and lips, thin beards, and wooly hair.

The peoples inhabiting lands from east Asia, through China, today’s central Asian states such as Usbekistan, and westward into Siberia and eastern Russia represented the third race, marked by their “truly white” skin, broad shoulders, flat faces, flat noses, thin beards, and long, thin eyes, while the short and squat Lapps of northern Scandanavia constituted the fourth race. Bernier considered whether the indigenous peoples of the Americas were a fifth race, but he ultimately assigned them to the first (Bernasconi and Lott 2000, 2–3).
If you're actually interested in learning some facts about this subject, there's a lot more here:

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/race/

But then again, you probably shouldn't bother with that wes...

Afterall, what do a bunch of morons at Stanford, with all their dopey research and silly footnotes know?

Find out what Donald Trump's position on the subject is; then you'll know the real truth...:ok
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wesw
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Re: King Tut

Post by wesw »

oh jim, you are so silly sometimes.

the examples of race being important to people is part of history, no matter what Stanford says....

let s see, shall we talk about the Vikings and where the word SLAVE came from?

shall we talk about all the black slaves that the early, and late arabs and muslims lorded it over?

should we talk about the bible?

what about the Aztecs?

the Mongolians?

the crusades?

Columbus?

early colonists?

come on, man......

certainly there were peoples to whom race mattered little, your example of Rome and Greece are perhaps the best examples of that, but it was certainly not universal

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Lord Jim
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Re: King Tut

Post by Lord Jim »

Go read the rest of the article wes...(Just the first section, "History of the Concept of Race")

Everything you mention is addressed...(Your "point" about the Christians and the Muslims during the Crusades is already addressed in the section I quoted; I guess you missed it)

Or you can just keep posting about this, talking out your butt without any reputable sources to cite, and

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Until you get tired of digging....
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wesw
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Re: King Tut

Post by wesw »

ok jim, the concept of race was invented by a bunch of white guys in the 1700 s......

you win......

wesw
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Re: King Tut

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: King Tut

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Lord Jim wrote: Or you can just keep posting about this, talking out your butt without any reputable sources to cite...
Now, what are the odds of THAT?
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

wesw
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Re: King Tut

Post by wesw »

so meade, with your extensive knowledge of history, you would agree that the concept of race and racial hierarchies was invented in the 1700 s?

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