My first night back at work

[loCAtek]

I've heard lots of cool ghost stories, some could be true, that is: there were deceased persons who matched the descriptions of the apparitions; some could be fabrications; and some could be combination of the two. It depends on alota things.

Like those 'Ghost Hunter' shows, they really pile on the hype. Some of the places they go to may indeed have paranormal activity, but I don't think they whisper the ghosts into performing. A haunted location is just used as a backdrop for their show. Take for instance, when they went to the USS Hornet in Alameda- a museum ship. I've been in the US Navy fleet and I've worked night-shift security onboard that ship. I believe old vessels can be haunted, and likely the USS Hornet is ...but that camera crew didn't capture anything more unusual than the sway of sea and the creek of fatigued metal.

Now, could you record a ghost if it was really there? Maybe not, sometimes they're there and you may not even know it. Back, when I was in the fleet, I was giving a friend a tour of my ship and as we sat down in a space to rest, for no explicable reason, my friend gasped, 'Somebody just went right through me! ...and went that way!' Now, I'd observed nothing at all, but my friend was what you call a sensitive.
Could it be he was just trying to fool me? I dunno what for, and if he was, his 'acting' was much better than those televised ghost hunters; it nearly gave him a heart attack.

[@meric@nwom@n]

I don't believe in ghosts, primarily because I have never seen one. I don't think it is immoral to promote stories about it though, I just get a good laugh out of watching the gullible.

[Sue U]

Fantasy is not immoral, it's simply fantasy. Ghost stories are no more immoral than any other work of fiction.

[loCAtek]

The other side of the coin is; have I seen things other people haven't?

Yes, and I can't physically prove it, and can't think of a way to record what happens sometimes. I can only describe it to you.

I can sometimes 'see' where a living person is even if there is something else blocking them.
Say perhaps they're behind a wall, or behind my back. If it happens it happens, I have no control over when it rarely occurrs. You might say, well you hear them perhaps and that's the sense you're using if not sight? Maybe, but let me give you an example;

At a class in the Navy, the lesson was on paying attention to your surroundings. The instructor was an energetic sort, who liked to use physical comedy as a visual aid. Once he leaped out the classroom door slamming it behind him, only to surprise reenter through the back door. Doing it again, he leaped out the door with a slam and the class in unison turned their heads to watch for him at the backdoor. I didn't. I could 'see' him crouched outside the classroom with his hand still on the knob; poised to rush back in. When he did with a pop, half the class jumped. I don't have X-ray vision, LOL and that was a metal door. It's just a fuzzy outline I saw, a 'ghost' if you will. Sometimes it's not even that clear but just a sense of presence.

[Rick]

I ate a June Bug once.

I don't recommend it...

[@meric@nwom@n]

I dated a guy who would eat june bugs, and crickets just to make me scream.

[Aard Vark]

I got into this job because of my love of history. I have had to learn so much about local history like the US war graves in Ipswich QLD.
All 1397 war dead were returned to the US in 1947. their metal cascets were put back in the ground after the bodies were returned to the US. Now that area is a play ground only a small plark and a flag pole is all that remanes of what was there but the locals don't use the equipment. Many say it is haunted and just don't use the park. Now this isn't just the people who have lived in the area for a long time it is all the local kids who don't want to go there.
So explane that?

I don't say something does or doesn't exist till I have solid proof either way. I seen and felt many things I can't explane and wont try to here.
What I will say I saw that woman's face what she saw or what she thinks she saw was enough to really scare her.

I like to think till I see a ghoast I will say it is up to the person who beleave will see what they beleave in and thoes who don't will never see a ghoast.

[Aard Vark]

I have never eaten a June bug or cricket but I do enjoy a nice big wichy grub. They tast a little like chicken raw but more like eggs when cooked.

[Sean]

I don't think that any of us can or should completely dismiss ghosts etc as fantasy. I am a true skeptic and will always look for the rational explanation but I've been stumped a couple of times. Of course this doesn't prove the existence of ghosts no more than debunking 99.9% of sightings disproves their existence.

At the same time I detest fucknuts like John Edward and Sylvia Browne.

[SisterMaryFellatio]

I have seen one!

[loCAtek]

A fucknut, a ghost or a June Bug?

[rubato]

Wrong? Why? What harm does it do, even if the belief is totally wrong and unfounded?

there are a lot of "beliefs" that people follow; people go to england and visit Sherwood Forest to look for the "haunts "of a mythical person who most likely never existed, Robin Hood. Likewise, people in Greece and Rome visit temples to gods that probably never existed and still don't. Isn't touring "haunted places" for "ghosts" similar? It's entertainment and diversion.

False beliefs are inherently harmful. They provide the basis for expending time and resources solving problems which do not exist, to using methods to solve real problems which are ineffective or harmful or to not discovering the real answers or using them.

Spreading false beliefs is a method of spreading confusion and injury.

I would think that this would be obvious to anyone.

To take only two of an ocean of examples a belief in 'gypsy curses' makes one vulnerable to the "gypsy curse" scam. A belief in the effectiveness of 'crystal therapy' leads people to waste time and money on a cure which will never be effective and to delay the use of effective treatments or to defer forever the effort to find an effective therapy.

Instilling false beliefs is one of the most directly amoral and corrupt acts I can think of.

yrs,
rubato

[rubato]

Fantasy is not immoral, it's simply fantasy. Ghost stories are no more immoral than any other work of fiction.

Fantasy presented clearly as fantasy is one thing. Fantasy presented neutrally or as a fact is wholly another.

"The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is a work of fiction. Presented as a work of fiction I have no objection to it but presented as if it is, or even might be true is a harmful lie.

Presenting the idea that ghosts are real is no less harmful. It makes people afraid of nothing; people who are frightened are easily susceptible to manipulation. To be used as tools. The "protocols" are used to create fear, that fear is used to instil hatred; people who are fearful and hate are easily made tools of as well.

yrs,
rubato

[tyro]

rubato said:

... a belief in 'gypsy curses' makes one vulnerable to the "gypsy curse" scam. A belief in the effectiveness of 'crystal therapy' leads people to waste time and money on a cure which will never be effective and to delay the use of effective treatments or to defer forever the effort to find an effective therapy.

While I basically agree with you, you are ignoring the impact of the placebo effect. Some people who believe in sugar pills or crystal therapy report improvements.

[loCAtek]

Fantasy is not immoral, it's simply fantasy. Ghost stories are no more immoral than any other work of fiction.

Fantasy presented clearly as fantasy is one thing. Fantasy presented neutrally or as a fact is wholly another.

Disagree, the 'Haunted House' (cemetery, train station, etc.) has always been a big source of entertainment that claims to be based in fact. San Jose is home to one of the largest Haunted Houses in the World; The Winchester Mystery House, and it's busiest night of the year is Halloween- the night when spirits are most roaming the earth. Speaking of Halloween there's a day based on superstition that's been growing in popularity every year. I know of 'Historical Sites' and I know of 'Spooky Sites', guess which get the bigger draw? (Which is what Aardy was talking about in the first place, attracting visitors to his job)
The most popular Horror movie of last year was rumored to be footage of real Paranormal Activity.

Why do people enjoy that? Who knows exactly, but it spiced up many a campfire.

[The Hen]

Gob is a sceptic.

I have shown him my house imps and he believes in them. Or at least, he believes he has now seen something that he can't explain.

[rubato]

rubato said:

... a belief in 'gypsy curses' makes one vulnerable to the "gypsy curse" scam. A belief in the effectiveness of 'crystal therapy' leads people to waste time and money on a cure which will never be effective and to delay the use of effective treatments or to defer forever the effort to find an effective therapy.

While I basically agree with you, you are ignoring the impact of the placebo effect. Some people who believe in sugar pills or crystal therapy report improvements.

The placebo effect just shows that people are suggestible. They can be induced to believe things that are not true. Placebos are a way of measuring a purported therapy to nothing. The degree to which their self-reported symptoms are changed after taking only the placebo is the degree to which their self-reporting of symptoms is unreliable.

yrs,
rubato

[rubato]

Gob is a sceptic.

I have shown him my house imps and he believes in them. Or at least, he believes he has now seen something that he can't explain.

I see things I cannot explain in the lab every week. I would expect this is common for people doing research. This is not evidence for the existence of ghosts.

yrs,
rubato

[Gob]

Do you think it is morally wrong to promote false beliefs, like the belief in ghosts, haunting &c. ?

yrs,
rubato

I suppose it boils down to your definition of "promote'.

If you tell people "this place is haunted", it may be, if you tell people; "this place is said to be haunted", it may not be.

If you make claims which prey on people's gullibility, that is bad, if you present it as a way of people exploring for themselves, that's not a bad thing.

If you are promoting a ghost tour as an entertainment, as in the way people will pay good money to watch a horror movie, then that's fun and good, if you imply some spiritual meaning to it, that's not good.

If you try to convert people, bad, if you use the tour as away for people to make their own explorations, good.

If done as a séance, bad, if done as a cheap thrill, good fun.

If it's playing on superstition, bad, if it has some historical or other educational value, good.

Let us not forget that the majority of people who go to these things do so to meet their own needs, they ain't dragged in off the streets to attend.

When push comes to shove, what we are talking about here is far less morally wrong than 99% of organised religion.

[SisterMaryFellatio]

A fucknut, a ghost or a June Bug?

All of them silly!

Gob is a sceptic.

I have shown him my house imps and he believes in them. Or at least, he believes he has now seen something that he can't explain.

Where do I get me one of them?