Hick's nice little earner..

[loCAtek]

As mentioned earlier, I also have spent a few years in a malaria ridden country. Back in those days I was on a daily prophylactic of quinine.

The only harm that caused was a love of Indian Tonic water, (preferable with a decent Gin these days).

Back in those days, mefloquine was not available; it was not approved by the FDA for prophylactic use until 1989. Wiki

When it was first approved in New Guinea and/or Australia, I have to assume was later than that.

[The Hen]

1. What has truth serum got to do with anything? Chemical torture isn't necessarily about the truth. Getting a declaration of material support to the enemy after years of alleged mistreatment, with an intense desire from the detainee to return home, would potentially exonerate those that provided the mistreatment with a justification for their actions.

2. It is known that he was taking malaria medication. The dosage of the malaria medication is also known. It is the other medications that were also given to him that are unknown. This is another reason Hicks wanted his day in Court.

3. A folk hero and a heroic whistle blower are two entirely different things. Ned Kelly is a folk hero. I did not state that he was a folk hero, but intimated that there was the POTENTIAL for him to acquire such status. should he achieve it, it would be the fault of the Australian Government.

Now can you answer my questions?

I think that all of your to me (as usual) have been answered in full.

Edited yet again as serum is not strum.

[The Hen]

As mentioned earlier, I also have spent a few years in a malaria ridden country. Back in those days I was on a daily prophylactic of quinine.

The only harm that caused was a love of Indian Tonic water, (preferable with a decent Gin these days).

Back in those days, mefloquine was not available; it was not approved by the FDA for prophylactic use until 1989. Wiki

When it was first approved in New Guinea and/or Australia, I have to assume was later than that.

Duh. I know.

I was taking quinine in the 1960s.

[loCAtek]

So how effective is mefloquine as a 'truth serum'.

Are anxious, paranoid, depressives such reliable sources of good intel?

I thought that was the point, that mefloquine was being used as 'truth serum', which is against Geneva Accords.
If it was not, and this was just a case of incorrect dosage, then that is far less serious an issue.

Hicks himself can not confirm the dosage, if any he recieved. His assumptions are based on speculation from other sources.

As stated, he's not writing about anything new; it's already been investigated.

[loCAtek]

As mentioned earlier, I also have spent a few years in a malaria ridden country. Back in those days I was on a daily prophylactic of quinine.

The only harm that caused was a love of Indian Tonic water, (preferable with a decent Gin these days).

Back in those days, mefloquine was not available; it was not approved by the FDA for prophylactic use until 1989. Wiki

When it was first approved in New Guinea and/or Australia, I have to assume was later than that.

Duh. I know.

I was taking quinine in the 1960s.

Your point in bringing that up is moot, then. We were discussing the present day use of mefloquine.

[The Hen]

So how effective is mefloquine as a 'truth serum'.

Are anxious, paranoid, depressives such reliable sources of good intel?

I thought that was the point, that mefloquine was being used as 'truth serum', which is against Geneva Accords.
If it was not, and this was just a case of incorrect dosage, then that is far less serious an issue.

Hicks himself can not confirm the dosage, if any he recieved. His assumptions are based on speculation from other sources.

As stated, he's not writing about anything new; it's already been investigated.

The point was chemical torture.

I refer you to the side effects on a NORMAL dosage.

[The Hen]

Your point in bringing that up is moot, then. We were discussing the present day use of mefloquine.

I was exchanging information with Jim who had reflected on his father.

Ferfucksake Lo. Try reading in the context of the post.

What malaria treatment have you undergone?

Also, please post the finding of the investigation. How were Hicks' allegations addressed?

[The Hen]

Wow Lo. I just notice that you entirely changed a post you made earlier in this thread.

It used to waffle on about something that didn't support the point you were making.

Now it states the following:

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:29 pm
Beg your pardon, but this wasn't answered;

So how effective is mefloquine as a 'truth serum'.

Are anxious, paranoid, depressives such reliable sources of good intel?
Last edited by loCAtek on Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Based on a true story...
relayed by a

Please do not start doing this.

Complete alterations of earlier posts is really unacceptable.

[loCAtek]

1. What has truth serum got to do with anything? Chemical torture isn't necessarily about the truth. Getting a declaration of material support to the enemy after years of alleged mistreatment, with an intense desire from the detainee to return home, would potentially exonerate those that provided the mistreatment with a justification for their actions.

Torture is not for torture's sake. The only reason for introducing chemicals is as truth serums to possibly extract information.

2. It is known that he was taking malaria medication. The dosage of the malaria medication is also known. It is the other medications that were also given to him that are unknown. This is another reason Hicks wanted his day in Court.

It is not known that he was 'tortured' by these medications. In fact, if he seems unaware of any adverse effects.

3. A folk hero and a heroic whistle blower are two entirely different things.

he·ro
   
1. a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.

2. a person who, in the opinion of others, has heroic qualities or has performed a heroic act and is regarded as a model or ideal: He was a local hero when he saved the drowning child.

As pointed out by your example of David, a local hero is often the basis for being a folk hero.

'Hero' and 'Heroic' are obviously the same word in noun and adjective form.

[The Hen]

Now look up the definition of folk hero before you embarrass yourself more.

Any the findings of the enquiry, if you would be so kind.

[The Hen]

Here. Let me help you with half of it.

A folk hero or national hero is a type of hero, real, fictional, or mythological. The single salient characteristic which makes a character a folk hero is the imprinting of the name, personality and deeds of the character in the popular consciousness. This presence in the popular consciousness is evidenced by mention in folk songs, folk tales and other folklore. Folk heroes are also the subject of literature and some films.

Although some folk heroes are historical public figures, they generally are not. Because the lives of folk heroes are generally not based on historical documents, the characteristics and deeds of a folk hero are often exaggerated to mythic proportions.

The folk hero often begins life as a normal person, but is transformed into someone extraordinary by significant life events, often in response to social injustice, and sometimes in response to natural disasters.

Your findings please.

[loCAtek]

Very well, you used 'folk hero' prematurely. I merely compromised by using 'heroic'.

As already stated, the results of the investigation will be released in 2013.

[loCAtek]

Already answered: detainees were being treated for possible exposure to malaria in Afghanistan, not Cuba. In some cases, the disease can take up to a year to manifest.

There has already been an investigation into this;

In 2010, the Institute on Medicine as a Profession (IMAP), along with the Soros-financed Open Society Institute (OSI) convened a Task Force on Preserving Medical Professionalism in National Security Detention Centers.

...

Interestingly, the IMAP TF included a former Guantanamo medical official, Captain (ret.) Albert Shimkus, Jr., who had been Chief Surgeon for JTF-160 at Guantanamo until mid-2003, and commanding officer at the Naval Base Hospital during the same period. Shimkus was not a doctor, but a nurse practitioner. Currently he teaches National Security Affairs at the U.S. Navy War College.

Of much importance to me, and presumably my readers, he was the official who signed off on the medical SOP that dosed every detainee entering Guantanamo with treatment-level doses of the anti-malaria drug mefloquine (also known as Lariam).

The unprecedented use of the drug, whose controversial history of side effects was already a subject of debate and research within the Department of Defense and CDC, was criticized by some public health experts. It was also the subject of an investigation by the Seton Hall Law Center for Policy and Research, published the same time as Jason Leopold and I issued the first of our Guantanamo mefloquine reports.

...

Another TF panel member told me that by April 2011, the TF had only met twice. Shimkus was present at both meetings, and seemed “regretful and decent.”

Captain Shimkus has always been responsive to my queries to him about the Guantanamo-mefloquine story, although responsive doesn’t mean fully open. He explained there were things that were classified and he was unable to talk about, or was told specifically not to talk about. In addition, he never seemed “regretful” about anything he did or policies undertaken from a medical standpoint at Guantanamo. He disagreed with the conclusions of Drs. Iacopino and Xenakis about medical neglect and/or cover-up at Guantanamo, and he maintained, in more than one interview, that he consulted on the mefloquine SOP and it was undertaken for public health reasons and was nothing more than that.



The Public Record

Now, we wait for the 2013 report.

[The Hen]

You lack comprehension.

Try reading my quote again and work out your error.

They (the Aus Gov) should have supported Hicks.

This is how you create folk heros and not particularly for all the correct reasons.

Your findings of the Hicks case please. That was the case being discussed.

[The Hen]

Wow Lo. I just notice that you entirely changed a post you made earlier in this thread.

It used to waffle on about something that didn't support the point you were making.

Now it states the following:

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:29 pm
Beg your pardon, but this wasn't answered;

So how effective is mefloquine as a 'truth serum'.

Are anxious, paranoid, depressives such reliable sources of good intel?
Last edited by loCAtek on Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Based on a true story...
relayed by a

Please do not start doing this.

Complete alterations of earlier posts is really unacceptable.

I see you don't deny it.

Thank you for that.

[loCAtek]

You lack comprehension.

Try reading my quote again and work out your error.

They (the Aus Gov) should have supported Hicks.

This is how you create folk heros and not particularly for all the correct reasons.

Your findings of the Hicks case please. That was the case being discussed.

I can only relay the IMAP TF findings when they are released in 2013, I have no direct knowledge of the investigation.

[loCAtek]

There was the presumption that this book would make him a [folk]hero; there is no error in asking questions, and stipulating that that he would merely be 'heroic';

Also, why is Hicks being lauded as a heroic whistle-blower with this book, when it's been public knowledge that there was an investigation over two years ago?

He can neither confirm nor deny, he was given any drugs.

Was this investigation in the media, what gave him the idea to include the allegations?

Granted then, If we are agreeing that he is not a folk hero at this time.

[The Hen]

I have NEVER said he was a folk hero at this time.

I have said that the Australian Government played their hand badly in the Hicks case and time will show that they have turned this man into a folk hero. And not for any of the US-centric arguments you have been trying to espouse.

How has the Australian Government set the wheels in motion to turn Dacid Hicks into a folk hero?

Do you know?

I do.

The wheels started, and commenced gaining speed, as soon as the Australian Government treated David Hicks differently from any other Australian citizen arrested and detained without charge. This is irrelevent to the extremely poor treatment and excessive drugs given by the American Government.

The court case in the OP has reinforced his looming future status.

The proceeds of his book are no longer being held as "proceeds from crime".

Everything else in this thread is secondary to the actions NOT taken by the Australian government.

But thanks for playing.

[Lord Jim]

If I were an Aussie, given the full record of Mr. Hicks actions, (which I've spent more time over the past couple of weeks learning about than I had previously) I would have wanted him removed from Gitmo and returned to Australia much sooner as well...

So he could be tried as a traitor and hanged....

[The Hen]

Bingo.

It is now too late for any such action to be taken.

History will now make what it will of David.