Plan B Forum

Turkish official: Women shouldn't laugh in public

Many Turkish women were doubled over with laughter Tuesday after their country's deputy leader said in a speech assailing "moral corruption" that women should not laugh in public and not talk on their mobile phones so much.

Speaking Monday night at a celebration marking the end of Ramadan, Deputy Prime Minister Bülent Arınç took aim at contemporary life in Turkey, arguing for more chastity, humility and reading of the Quran and less consumerism, oil consumption and sex in the media, the Hurriyet Daily News reported.

Social media lit up as news of the speech spread, with hundreds of Turkish women posting photos of themselves and friends laughing in public places. Popular hashtags included #kahkaha (laugh) and #direnkahkaha (resist, laugh).

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/worl ... /13326925/

Oh geeze, next they will be saying we can't belch and fart in public either.

On the serious side, these are scary times for women.

TPFKA@W wrote: "...

On the serious side, these are scary times for women.

This is the first time in history when a large part of the world accepts the idea that women have rights which should be protected and defended. A time of change and receding fear, I think.

yrs,
rubato

http://www.buzzfeed.com/richardhjames/e ... g-campaign

rubato wrote:

TPFKA@W wrote: "...

On the serious side, these are scary times for women.

This is the first time in history when a large part of the world accepts the idea that women have rights which should be protected and defended. A time of change and receding fear, I think.

yrs,
rubato

You are not paying attention. Woman in the middle East in the 1960's and 1970's were able to walk around in Western attire if they wanted to. Now they cannot. They are wearing Burkas which are not a symbol of female progress.

It's scary that you think everything is progressing along nicely.

@w is right; the backlash against women in that part of the world, and in our own front yard, terrifies me. As a child of the 70s who grew up with ERA and 'I am woman, hear me roar', I'm sickened by the attitudes expressed by the religious right in this country regarding women's reproductive rights, etc. I'm glad I don't have a daughter.

TPFKA@W wrote:

rubato wrote:

TPFKA@W wrote: "...

On the serious side, these are scary times for women.

This is the first time in history when a large part of the world accepts the idea that women have rights which should be protected and defended. A time of change and receding fear, I think.

yrs,
rubato

You are not paying attention. Woman in the middle East in the 1960's and 1970's were able to walk around in Western attire if they wanted to. Now they cannot. They are wearing Burkas which are not a symbol of female progress.

It's scary that you think everything is progressing along nicely.

Putting words into anothers mouth so that you can drop off a rhetorical point is not honest argument. I have been paying better attention than you. We had a post-doc from Peshawar Pakistan in 1980. His wife, a woman with a university education who spoke perfect english, said that when they return she could not even leave the house unescorted by a male relative.

But the main point is that before the 1st and 2nd women's movements (roughly 1850s to 1920s and 1960s-1980s) there were very few people anywhere in the world who would say that women have rights at all. No one would be outraged by his comments. What has changed is significant. We now have a great deal of momentum going forward across the globe.

While some places have regressed, the overall tide of history is the other way. It is the same with slavery, while we do have slavery of different forms to a significant degree we also, for the first time in human history, have a situation where nearly all of the educated world believes that slavery is immoral and wrong.


I would say that for all of history before the middle of the 20th century would be more a time for women to be fearful than now. And for all of that time women had no hope of any change either.


yrs,
rubato

bigskygal wrote:@w is right; the backlash against women in that part of the world, and in our own front yard, terrifies me. As a child of the 70s who grew up with ERA and 'I am woman, hear me roar', I'm sickened by the attitudes expressed by the religious right in this country regarding women's reproductive rights, etc. I'm glad I don't have a daughter.

American religious fundamentalists are just like the Mullahs. Ultra-orthodox dogmatists and stupid as sand.


yrs,
rubato

Rubato,


I would never, in a million years, get close enough to your mouth to put words in it. Interpreting a person's words and restating them as one has interpreted them is not putting words in a mouth. Perhaps if you would have written what you wrote just above instead of what you previously wrote my interpretation of your words would have been different.
You still give the impression to me that you are a very cavalierly unaware male of the species. Things have decidedly remained horrific for a huge segment of the female population and for many it has taken a downhill turn.

TPFKA@W wrote:Rubato,


I would never, in a million years, get close enough to your mouth to put words in it. Interpreting a person's words and restating them as one has interpreted them is not putting words in a mouth. Perhaps if you would have written what you wrote just above instead of what you previously wrote my interpretation of your words would have been different.
You still give the impression to me that you are a very cavalierly unaware male of the species. Things have decidedly remained horrific for a huge segment of the female population and for many it has taken a downhill turn.

You could have apologized for your mistake but you decided avoid the better outcome in favor of the worse. I said nothing like "everything is progressing along nicely".


Sorry you not honest enough to admit it. You are less interesting thereby.

And you don't really know much about the status of women in the middle east in the 1970s either.

But, your needs for constant self-justification aside, the change in attitudes towards women's rights have created a force for change which did not exist before and which is advancing, if unevenly and with setbacks.


yrs,
rubato

I will tell you honestly Rube, you thinking less of me is a badge of honor. You cannot possibly understand how proudly I will wear it.

I must remember that trick....

1) I write something unclear/poorly worded
2) get called on the actual text of what I wrote.
3) demand apology

Crackpot wrote:I must remember that trick....

1) I write something unclear/poorly worded
2) get called on the actual text of what I wrote.
3) demand apology

4) ???
5) PROFIT!!

You could have apologized for your mistake but you decided avoid the better outcome in favor of the worse.

LMAO

I hate it when The Irony Meter blows up first thing on a Monday morning...

Rube, if I had a dollar for every time around here that you would have been very well served by following that advice, I would have quite a tidy sum indeed...

And in the case where you offer it, it's not even warranted; your initial statement was such that @W's interpretation was fully legitimate.

Of course you could have apologized, admitted that your post was poorly worded, and then clarified your point, but you decided to avoid the better outcome in favor of the worse.

you don't really know much about the status of women in the middle east in the 1970s either.

No, that would be you...

Women experienced far less discrimination in many countries (and regions of countries) throughout the Mid-East and Southwest Asia at that time than they do today; starting of course with Iran...

Basically, wherever Islamicism has been on the rise the rights and freedoms of women decline in direct correspondence; the two go hand-in-hand...

Which is why Islam is a cancer on the world & needs to be dealt with as such.

Lord Jim wrote:Women experienced far less discrimination in many countries (and regions of countries) throughout the Mid-East and Southwest Asia at that time than they do today; starting of course with Iran...(Of course, Iran was a Shiite Muslim country both before and after the Islamic Revolution.)

Basically, wherever Islamicism any religious fundamentalism has been on the rise the rights and freedoms of women decline in direct correspondence; the two go hand-in-hand...

Jarlaxle wrote:Which is why Islam fundamentalism is a cancer on the world & needs to be dealt with as such.

Fixed.

(Of course, Iran was a Shiite Muslim country both before and after the Islamic Revolution.)

Some photos of women in Tehran, from the 1970s:







Photo's of women in contemporary Tehran:

I have an inlaw who was born about 1960 and was raised in Tehran up to age 18 when her alarmed parents got her the hell out of Iran. She has lamented seeing her mother have to give up her westernized dress and don covering and leave her job.

"Take one giant step backwards", "Islam may I?"

Some Christians adopt similar philosophy. Pentacostals have a female "uniform". Not as extreme. Yet.

TPFKA@W wrote:I have an inlaw who was born about 1960 and was raised in Tehran up to age 18 when her alarmed parents got her the hell out of Iran.

I'd say they had damn good timing!

Pentacostals have a female "uniform".

There are a number of conservative Christian sects that mandate modest and even "uniform" type dress for their female members...and sometimes male members too (like the Amish)

The big difference is they don't have the power of the state to back them up and force every woman to adhere to their dress codes whether they want to or not, under penalty of criminal punishment...