Plan B Forum

He took revenge in the name of all blacks, but what is scary he is not alone; there are plenty of black people in the inter city that feel the same.

http://news.yahoo.com/two-nypd-officers ... 37751.html

Ismaaiyl Brinsley, 28, ID'd as shooter of two NYPD officers in Brooklyn ambush 'assassinations'
Shooter posted chilling threates before killings; Two NYPD cops identified as Wenjian Liu and Raphael Ramos

The lone gunman who walked up to a Brooklyn patrol car and opened fire, killing two New York City police officers execution style, has been identified as a Baltimore man who posted chilling anti-cop messages to social media Saturday before traveling to New York to carry out his threats.
New York City Police Commissioner Bill Bratton, speaking at a press conference Saturday night, confirmed the identity of the shooter as 28-year-old Ismaaiyl Brinsley. He identified the two slain cops as partners Wenjian Liu and Raphael Ramos.
Brinsley posted a sinister message on Instagram earlier Saturday along with an image of a silver handgun and hashtags invoking the names of Michael Brown and Eric Garner after reportedly shooting and wounding a former girlfriend in Baltimore.
“I’m Putting Wings On Pigs Today. They Take 1 Of Ours...Let’s Take 2 of Theirs ... This May Be My Final Post...I’m Putting Pigs In A Blanket.” Brinsley wrote, with the hashtags #ShootThePolice #RIPErivGarner #RIPMike Brown.

According to Baltimore police, Brinsley shot and wounded a former girlfriend there around 5:45 a.m. Saturday before traveling to Brooklyn, Bratton said. The woman's mother contacted Baltimore police after she noticed Brinsley's comments on Instagram.
Baltimore police faxed a bulletin describing Brinsley to NYPD headquarters that arrived at 2:45 p.m., Bratton said, at almost the exact moment Brinsley opened fire on Liu and Ramos. Bratton said the ambush was at 2:47 p.m. in Brooklyn's Bedford-Stuyvesant neighborhood.
Bratton said according to a witness, Brinsley took a shooting stance on the passenger side of the police cruiser and fired several times striking both officers in the head. The pair, he said, never had the chance to draw their own weapons and may never have seen their assailant.
“Both officers paid the ultimate sacrifice today,” Bratton said.
Brinsley later fatally shot himself in the head on a subway platform after fleeing the scene.
New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio, speaking after the commissioner, called the attack an "assassination" and said that when a police officer is attacked, every New Yorker should feel as though they were attacked.
“Although we are still learning the details, it’s clear that this was an assassination. These officers were shot execution style,” de Blasio said. “A particularly despicable act … when a police officer is murdered, it tears at the very foundation of our society.”
"Our city is in mourning, our hearts are heavy," he said.
There have been protests almost nightly in New York City since the grand dury decisions in the police-involved deaths of Michael Brown and Eric Garner. Cops in both cases were not indicted.
The mayor has been sharply critcized by New York City police union leaders for comments perceived as unsupportive of the city's police force after an officer investigated in the chokehold death of Staten Island man Eric Garner was not indicted.
Lingering tensions from that fallout were on stark display Saturday night in raw video captured by local television channel PIX11, which showed a wall of officers turning their backs on de Blasio as he arrived at a press conference

Whenever a deranged killer claiming a right wing oriented motivation, does something comparable (like killing an abortion doctor for example) we always hear a lot from some quarters about how conservative media and conservative activists and politicians somehow "foster an environment" or "create a climate" that gives them some sort of culpability for what the deranged person did...

Do you suppose we'll hear a lot from those folks now about how liberal media and liberal activists and politicians have some responsibility for this?

I'm betting no...

Oh good lord. How could you possible equate peaceful protests about wrongful deaths as providing safe harbor/cover/justification for yet more murder. I'm as horrified as I was about the original deaths that sparked the protests.

ETA: I'm not a fan of the "Black lives matter" tag, because *ALL* lives matter. This morning I've seen "police lives matter." Again, same problem --- and further inflaming an "us v. them" mentality.

Oh good lord. How could you possible equate peaceful protests about wrongful deaths as providing safe harbor/cover/justification for yet more murder.

That's all you've seen Guin?

I've seen an enormous drumbeat about trigger happy racist white cops in general...

A day hasn't gone by for months where this hasn't been a theme in the news..

Here are some lovely tweets about the killings:

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2014/12/21/ ... all-167119

For the record, my personal view is that when a deranged person commits a heinous act, it is the deranged person and the deranged person alone who is responsible for it. Whether they are killing abortion doctors or police officers. I think that for the most part, efforts to blame anyone for "creating a climate" are just facile attempts to try to get people who express opinions one disagrees with to shut up, and to discredit positions one opposes with intellectually dishonest "guilt by association"...

However, it seems to me that if one is a person who has tried to do things like blame FOX News or Rush Limbaugh or conservative politicians for abortion clinic attacks, or violent anti-government vigilantism, that intellectual consistency would require seeing those who have fostered and whipped up the current virulently anti-police attitude that exists among many as having a responsibility in this case as well....

So you're claiming those few tweets represent the views of all of the protestors? I saw the protests ---- vastly peaceful protests ----focussing on the lives lost, not those who took the lives. Was there anger? Of course. As there is anger about yesterday's killing, too.

So you're claiming those few tweets represent the views of all of the protestors?

Oh come on Guin, where did I say anything remotely like that?

In the community where this happened, there appears to be a mixed reaction...

In the Brooklyn neighborhood where two police officers were brutally murdered, not everyone was grieving.

Across the street from the hospital where two Brooklyn police officers were brought after being murdered, there were carnations and a makeshift memorial: a cardboard box and a handmade sign in marker reading, "R.I.P. NYPD." Hundreds of cops saluting as the bodies were rolled out with a full escort by highway patrol. Citizens were watching in shock from above on the subway station.

Throughout New York, the execution-style killing of these officers in the Bedford-Stuyvesant neighborhood of Brooklyn has generated a near-universal sense of horror at the crime -- and sympathy for the victims.

"Now we have two families that's missing someone from the holidays," a Bedford-Stuyvesant resident told a local news station. "Where's your sense of humanity?"

But the scene outside Woodhull Hospital wasn't entirely supportive. "You're a bunch of killers," a passerby told cops standing sentry there, according to one police source. And short distance from the crime scene -- where a crowd was backed up by the police tape -- a few members of the crowd repeated "fuck the cops" within earshot of a Daily Beast reporter.

One 30-year-old local who gave his first name only as Carlos, didn’t hear the fatal gunfire but saw the hysteria aftewards and walked to the police tape.

“A lot of people were clapping and laughing,” he said.

“Some were saying, ‘They deserved it,’ and another was shouting at the cops, ‘Serves them right because you mistreat people!’” he said.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... oklyn.html

So what's your point LJ? Seems to me despite what you said above, you are indeed finger-pointing not just at the perps, but at anyone who was outraged by what happened in Ferguson and Staten Island.

Instead of pointing fingers at the so-called liberal press, the protestors, the cops, why don't we actually acknowledge that there is still tremendous racial inequality in this country, and along with the growing economic inequality, its making people more and more despairing that they will get a fair shake. Why don't we try and address the problem as a nation, instead of becoming more and more balkanized (by race, economic status, political affiliation, and all the other ways more and more dividing lines seem to be drawn -- Lib's headline and opening comments are a perfect example).

Hey we all know that liberty is not at all racist. After all he's said so on multiple occasions.

Anyone notice that (judging by names) the 2 murdered cops appear to be Asian-American and Hispanic-American - not exactly WASPS?

I suppose to a... er... deranged person, certain others all look alike?

but at anyone who was outraged by what happened in Ferguson and Staten Island.

I remain utterly bewildered by that take-away from what I've said...(In the Garner case, I guess that would mean that I'm also blaming myself...)

So what's your point LJ?

Okay, I'm going to re-post what I said in my first two posts, this time with emphasis on the words that will hopefully make my meaning clear:

Whenever a deranged killer claiming a right wing oriented motivation, does something comparable (like killing an abortion doctor for example) we always hear a lot from some quarters about how conservative media and conservative activists and politicians somehow "foster an environment" or "create a climate" that gives them some sort of culpability for what the deranged person did...

For the record, my personal view is that when a deranged person commits a heinous act, it is the deranged person and the deranged person alone who is responsible for it. Whether they are killing abortion doctors or police officers. I think that for the most part, efforts to blame anyone for "creating a climate" are just facile attempts to try to get people who express opinions one disagrees with to shut up, and to discredit positions one opposes with intellectually dishonest "guilt by association"...

However, it seems to me that ifone is a person who has tried to do things like blame FOX News or Rush Limbaugh or conservative politicians for abortion clinic attacks, or violent anti-government vigilantism, that intellectual consistency would require seeing those who have fostered and whipped up the current virulently anti-police attitude[not seeing anything in there about "everyone" or "anyone" who joined a peaceful protest] that exists among many as having a responsibility in this case as well....

So Guin, if you don't believe that Fox News, or The Tea party, or other conservative activists should share blame when some wingnut engages in an act of anti-government violence, then my comments don't even apply to you...

If you don't believe in that kind of blaming, then you believe the same way that I do; that only the deranged person is to blame for their deranged act.

To encapsulate it, my point is that if you are a person who wants to try to give a share of blame to Sarah Palin when somebody shoots a census taker, then you ought to also be giving folks like Al Sharpton a share of the blame when something like this happens.


Again, I am not advocating that a person take the "creating climate" blame approach in either case. I'm opposed to that sort of analysis, philosophically and conceptually. I'm merely pointing out the ideologically driven hypocrisy of those who would assign that sort of blame in the case of violence committed by conservative wingnuts, but not in a case like this.

And again, if you're not one of those folks, my comments aren't even about you.

I'm not taking your comments personally. Does that mean I can't discuss them?

Of course you can, but you've said twice now that I'm trying to blame "anybody" who opposed what happened in Ferguson, or on Staten Island, or who participated in a protest, for the murder of the two police officers in NYC, when that hasn't remotely been my point.

My point isn't about my wanting to assign collective blame. I'm against that. My point is about hypocrisy. Have I at least succeeded in clearing that up?

Guinevere wrote:So what's your point LJ? Seems to me despite what you said above, you are indeed finger-pointing not just at the perps, but at anyone who was outraged by what happened in Ferguson and Staten Island.

Instead of pointing fingers at the so-called liberal press, the protestors, the cops, why don't we actually acknowledge that there is still tremendous racial inequality in this country, and along with the growing economic inequality, its making people more and more despairing that they will get a fair shake. Why don't we try and address the problem as a nation, instead of becoming more and more balkanized (by race, economic status, political affiliation, and all the other ways more and more dividing lines seem to be drawn -- Lib's headline and opening comments are a perfect example).

Well put.


yrs,
rubato

Guinevere wrote:...why don't we actually acknowledge that there is still tremendous racial inequality in this country, and along with the growing economic inequality, its making people more and more despairing that they will get a fair shake. Why don't we try and address the problem as a nation, instead of becoming more and more balkanized (by race, economic status, political affiliation, and all the other ways more and more dividing lines seem to be drawn -- Lib's headline and opening comments are a perfect example).

Duly acknowledged (by most folks anyway). So what do "we" do? In one small area that seemed to provide a smidgin of help, body cameras for police, I heard on the radio the other day that civil liberties concerns are being raised against them. I don't really see it - traffic cameras are becoming more common - but supposedly there is an argument that innocent citizens will be recorded cheating on their spouses, skiving off work, whatever (and perhaps shown on TV etc.) any time that a tape is made public.

But that's a small step. What major steps might be considered to make this a more civil society?

Well, if you read what Guin wrote that would be a start.

Guinevere wrote:...why don't we actually acknowledge that there is still tremendous racial inequality in this country, and along with the growing economic inequality, its making people more and more despairing that they will get a fair shake. Why don't we try and address the problem as a nation, instead of becoming more and more balkanized (by race, economic status, political affiliation, and all the other ways more and more dividing lines seem to be drawn -- Lib's headline and opening comments are a perfect example).

Nothing to do with body cameras or traffic cameras here.


When people discover that the game really is rigged and they can't win they start to act out. They should.

Start by reading Te Nehisi Coates article about reparations.

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/arc ... ns/361631/

Go back and read "torn from the land"

http://theauthenticvoice.org/teachersgu ... omtheland/
http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/393.html


yrs,
rubato

Body cameras is one thing that can be done and should employed as fast as the can be produced.

Justice and fairness would be nice. Might even have a larger effect and a longer lasting one.

but you have to deal with reality to sort that one. Good luck.


yrs,
rubato

rubato wrote:Justice and fairness would be nice. Might even have a larger effect and a longer lasting one.

but you have to deal with reality to sort that one. Good luck.


yrs,
rubato

Anyone else care to make note of what a completely unprovoked snotty, condescending, and snide comment that was? Or was I the only one to notice it?

Anyone? Anyone at all?

Okay, I admit, I was tempted to click and see.

And it turns out, my horrible no-good understanding of psychology turned out to result in yet another predicted behavior.

Like Pavlov's dog; rubato posts and




Ding, ding. Seems pretty clear the connection, no matter what's written.