A Thread For Posts About The Confederate Battle Flag...

[Lord Jim]

Here you go, have at it; knock yourselves out...

[BoSoxGal]

What are you, ??

[wesw]

now you ve gone and made meade click on a post that he didn t want to read....

bad rebel....

[Econoline]

Just found this on Facebook. The author, Jonathan Byrd (who I've never heard of), is apparently a country/folk singer/songwriter who lives in the South and is very much at home with southerners and the southern lifestyle. This post is so amazing that I just have to quote the whole thing:

If the massacre in Charleston- or any number of similar events in recent U.S. history- had been committed by a foreign invader, we would go to war. How many billions will we spend fighting the terrorist organization known as institutionalized racism? How many American lives are we willing to risk to protect America?

I hear you out there saying, "But it's not an institution. There are no leaders. There's no one to attack."

Yes there is. You want to flush them out? Here's how to do it: Take down the confederate flag. Take it down on national television. Take it down for an hour. A day, if you can stand it. A week would be nice. I don't want to talk about whether it's right or wrong. It's the least we could do, a gesture that would mean more than words.

Then watch the organization reveal itself. The leaders would be obvious immediately. They would in fact be invited to speak on the nightly news. You might be surprised to find out that they already sit behind the news desk. They are in some of our nation's highest offices. They are on the school board. They will not have enough humility to sit on their hands, not even for ten minutes. Their supporters may even show up in the comments on this status, threatened enough by the mere idea of a humble gesture to their sworn enemy. I hope they do.

Every day and night, my news feed is full of vicious attacks on conservatives and liberals, socialists and capitalists. Where are the vicious attacks on the racists? Conservatives, liberals, socialists and capitalists all have useful ideas and contribute to our society. Racists have no good ideas. Where is the relentless campaign against them? Who will threaten to move out of the country if the racists are elected? Who will run on an anti-racist platform?

No one. That is the extent to which the terrorists have infiltrated America. They founded it. We live in a terrorist state.

I say that because I can't feel it. I say that because when I get pulled over by the police, it doesn't even cross my mind that they might kill me if I argue with them. I say that because I own a house in an entirely white neighborhood and I play loud music and I have a dead car in my driveway and my kid runs around naked and I never worry about what my neighbors think about me. I say that because I'm always surprised when I look out into my audience from the stage and see a black face, but I don't even notice the absence when I look out on a sea of white faces. I say it because when I see the confederate flag, all I think is, "I'm home." The flag doesn't bother me at all, not in my gut, not in my deeper psyche. Sometimes when I'm far from home and I see the rebel flag, it's actually... and this is so terrible I need to take a breath before I type it... comforting. What can I say? It's hard to see a problem when it signs your paycheck.

So I say it to remind myself: we live in a terrorist state that doesn't threaten me. It threatens the descendants of the people who built Charleston and made it the richest city in the South, one of the most tolerant cities in the colonies, a society that prided itself on its religious and ethnic diversity- which was indeed notable for its day- all the while keeping the healthiest slave market in the world and firing the first shots of the Civil War because, as outlined in the South Carolina Declaration of Secession, "they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection."

It's time to disturb the peace again. Here's a more recent declaration:

"Take down the flag. Take it down now.

Put it in a museum. Inscribe beneath it the years 1861-2015. Move forward. Abandon this charlatanism. Drive out this cult of death and chains. Save your lovely souls. Move forward. Do it now." - Ta-Nahisi Coates

It doesn't threaten your heritage. You take off your hat for a lady. You clean the shit off your boots before you walk into a church. It's just a matter of respect. Admit that your perspective might feel right and be wrong. Take it down, South Carolina. Just for today. A few days if you can stand it. Then put it back up if you must. I know how it is. I feel the pressure not to say anything, not to get involved. Who am I? I'm just a singer with no Grammies or gold records. I should be happy with what I have and not roil the waters.

I may reach ten thousand people with this post. Maybe thirty thousand. And there just may be one of my fans who is outraged, one guy who can't humble himself enough to hear anyone else's truth without getting red in the face and typing his opinion against me. One guy who will never come to another Jonathan Byrd show. Or maybe there are five. Or ten.
But you know what? Fuck that guy. Fuck all those guys. Let them hang their rebel flags from their prefab sheds where they hide their liquor and their porn from their wives. We don't owe them anything. We don't owe the past anything. We owe the future everything. Take it down.

I know you won't. But I hope I'm wrong just like I didn't think we'd ever elect a black president. Step into the future. Take it down.

Perfect. Just....perfect.

[BoSoxGal]

Agreed! I don't know who this guy is or what kind of music he makes but I'm going to buy an album based on that essay alone.

[wesw]

well, the guys who support the flag because of their heritage should perhaps switch to the flag with the 13 stars to make their points....

[wesw]

gov haley just gave one heckuva speech.......

[BoSoxGal]

Worth a watch:

[rubato]

Well said.

"You are a bigot and I am disappointed in how you treat my country."


yrs,
rubato

[Gob]

You couldn't make it up, murders on the streets and they're arguing about a flag!?!?!



Priorities people.

[BoSoxGal]

This is hugely inspiring. Will the South finally go quietly into that good night?

The Confederate battle flag and three other symbols of the Confederacy were taken down Wednesday from the Capitol grounds in Montgomery, Ala., after their removal was ordered by Gov. Robert Bentley amid a growing backlash against the symbols following last week's racially motivated mass shooting at a black church in South Carolina.

Two workers walked out of the Capitol building and took the flag down shortly after 8 a.m. without any fanfare. Bentley told AL.com it was his decision to bring the flag down, calling it "the right thing to do." AL.com adds:

"Bentley said before he made the final decision he checked to see if there were any impediments in the law or state policy that would prevent him from taking down the flag and found none, so he acted."

Dan Carsen of member station WBHM in Birmingham tells our Newscast unit that Bentley said he didn't want the flags to become a distraction as Alabama grapples with issues including a massive budget deficit. Dan adds:

"The four flags removed from the memorial were the first, second and third national confederate flags, and the better-known battle flag. They were put up in the early '90s after then-Gov. Jim Folsom removed the battle flag from the state Capitol."

Reporter MacKenzie Bates of Alabama Public Radio notes Montgomery was named the first capital of the Confederate States of America in 1861 before the capital was moved to Richmond, Va. The first White House of the Confederacy sits across the street from the Capitol.

The move comes a day after the South Carolina House voted to allow debate on removing the battle flag from outside the Statehouse. Any changes to the flag in that state requires a two-thirds vote in the House and Senate.

Efforts to remove symbols of the Confederacy are also underway in Mississippi, Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee and other parts of the former Confederacy. [Copyright 2015 NPR]

[Lord Jim]

"You are a bigot

Says the biggest bigot on the board....

LMFAO...

You can't make this stuff up....

[BoSoxGal]

Oh shut up and watch the video - he's quoting it.

[dgs49]

There are many symbols (and people) that are honored by sectors of society that fail the test of logic, and those outside that group don't generally give a crap.

But one cannot deny that the Confederate battle flag is an open, overt, insult to the descendants of African slaves, whether it is displayed innocently or otherwise. (Of course, Our Beloved President is not a descendant of African slaves, so his thoughts on the subject are not especially relevant).

Next in line, of course are the hundreds of memorials shrines, public facilities, and roads that are named after the heroes of the Confederate side - who, if memory serves, were traitors to the United States of America. If the flag must come down, what about the Stonewall Jackson Memorial Highway (assuming there is such a road), and such like that?

And what about Sam Clemens, who riddled many of his works of fiction with a word that we now consider to be a cultural atrocity? Remove his name from stuff?

Where does it end?

What will NASCAR do? The Dukes of Fucking Hazzard? Do we erase their memory?

[rubato]

"...

And what about Sam Clemens, who riddled many of his works of fiction with a word that we now consider to be a cultural atrocity? Remove his name from stuff?

... " ?

Huckleberry Finn was written as a powerful treatise against racism and slavery. Perhaps you should read it.


http://www.novelguide.com/reportessay/l ... berry-finn

Many times throughout the novel Huck comes very close to rationalizing Jim's slavery. However, he is never able to see a reason why this man who has become one of his only friends, should be a slave. Through this internal struggle, Twain expresses his opinions of the absurdity of slavery and the importance of following one's personal conscience before the laws of society. By the end of the novel, Huck and the reader have come to understand that Jim is not someone's property and an inferior man, but an equal. Throughout the novel, society's voice is heard through Huck. The racist and hateful contempt which existed at the time is at many times present. But, it is vital for the reader to recognize these ideas as society's and to recognize that Twain throughout the novel disputes these ideas. Twain brings out into the open the ugliness of society and causes the reader to challenge the original ... "

yrs,
rubato

[MajGenl.Meade]

But one cannot deny that the Confederate battle flag is an open, overt, insult to the descendants of African slaves, whether it is displayed innocently or otherwise. (Of course, Our Beloved President is not a descendant of African slaves, so his thoughts on the subject are not especially relevant).

I assume this is your last post on the subject then?

[oldr_n_wsr]

well, the guys who support the flag because of their heritage should perhaps switch to the flag with the 13 stars to make their points....

The battle flag has 13 stars.

Personally, I like the old "Don't Tread on Me" flag.

[wesw]

yeah oldr, I noticed that later. 13 stars and 13 stripes....

[oldr_n_wsr]

yeah oldr, I noticed that later. 13 stars and 13 stripes....

Funny how that worked out.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Except that it didn't. The rebel battle flag had 13 stars but not 13 stripes

The US flag during the rebellion had 13 stripes but not 13 stars. It was 33 stars in 1860; Kansas joined in 1861 and it became 34; West Virginia in 1863 made 35. In 1865 Nevada became number 36 but the official flag didn't add the star until after the war.

So I still do not understand any of the posts about 13 stars and/or 13 stripes