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UK Justice, does it exist?
Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:57 pm
by Gob
Blackburn father urges fatal crash driver's deportation
Paul Houston Mr Houston said Ibrahim had left his daughter to die "like a dog"
The father of a girl left dying under the wheels of a car has urged judges for "justice" by deporting the driver.
Paul Houston, from Darwen, Lancashire, told judges they had the power to bring his "seven years of hell to an end" by sending Aso Mohammed Ibrahim to Iraq.
The Iraqi Kurd fled after knocking down 12-year-old Amy Houston in Blackburn in 2003. He was jailed for four months.
On Monday the UK Border Agency (UKBA) began a tribunal appeal against the decision to grant Ibrahim residency.
Ibrahim, 32, was jailed by Blackburn magistrates for driving while disqualified and failing to stop after an accident.
The father-of-two was due to be deported but won the right to stay in the UK after a series of appeals at the Manchester Asylum and Immigration Tribunal.
As the UKBA appeal against the decision got under way, Mr Houston, 41, requested the two judges read a letter, an impassioned plea, before making their decision.
The tribunal heard details of Ibrahim's criminal convictions, including driving while disqualified and without insurance, possession of cannabis and cautions for criminal damage and burglary and theft.
In 2006 - three years after the fatal crash - he was again convicted of driving whilst disqualified and without insurance.
In 2009 he was also convicted of harassment, damage to property and theft, the tribunal heard.
Paul Houston said all he wanted was justice for his daughter, Amy
Matthew Barnes, for the UKBA, said Ibrahim had shown "contempt to the laws of the UK".
He added: "The appellant [Ibrahim] has spent his time here repeatedly committing a variety of criminal offences, some of which has led to imprisonment."
Mavelyn Vidal, counsel for Ibrahim, said his client's partner - who also has two children - had spoken of him in "glowing terms" as a father.
Senior Immigration Judge Deborah Taylor refused permission for Mr Houston to address the hearing, but accepted his letter.
Outside the tribunal, Mr Houston said: "All I have asked for is justice for Amy. You have seen his catalogue of crimes, what possible benefit does this man have being in this country?
"I have never asked for any type of revenge, all I ask for is for him to return to his own country.
"I don't think that's an unreasonable request, not the way he left my daughter to die like a dog."
The judges will deliver their decision in December.
So the guy is an illegal, has a string of convictions, and kills a kid, then goes out and acts in the same ways all over again?
Death penalty is too fucking good for him.
Re: UK Justice, does it exist?
Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:12 pm
by Sue U
What is it that enrages you? His immigration status? That he is petitioning for asylum? Some petty offenses? Or that he had a motor vehicle accident resultiing in a fatality? Does "justice" require automatic deportation or, as you would apparently have it, death for any of these things?
Oh and BTW, the story does not indicate any sort of offense on Mr. Ibrahim's record prior to the 2003 MVA in which Amy Houston died. That he left the scene was both illegal and cowardly (also understandable, given his circumstances), but nothing idicates that it would have in any way changed the unfortunate outcome.
Re: UK Justice, does it exist?
Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:49 pm
by Gob
Sue, the man ran away leaving a dying girl under his car, he then continued to flout the laws of the land by driving unlicensed and uninsured.
He was in the country illegally.
Hang the bastard.
Re: UK Justice, does it exist?
Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:57 pm
by Sue U
Gob wrote:Sue, the man ran away leaving a dying girl under his car,
What was he to do, lift it off her? It was a horrible accident, I'm sure, and as I said leaving the scene was both illegal and cowardly, but as I understand it none of that is a hanging offense, even in barbaric Britain.
Gob wrote:he then continued to flout the laws of the land by driving unlicensed and uninsured.
Have we reached the hanging offense yet?
Gob wrote:He was in the country illegally.
Ah, there it is! Plus, y'know, Muslim.
Re: UK Justice, does it exist?
Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:53 pm
by @meric@nwom@n
Why should it matter where he is from? Is this crime less heinous because he is a Muslim?
Lock him up and throw away the key.
Re: UK Justice, does it exist?
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:07 am
by Sean
I agree to a point @W...
Certainly lock the fucker up but the UK taxpayer should not have to pay for his bed and board!
Re: UK Justice, does it exist?
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:17 am
by @meric@nwom@n
To me it (the paying of taxes) would be worth seeing that he was adequately punished for the deed.
Re: UK Justice, does it exist?
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:22 am
by Gob
He ran off leaving a 12 year old girl dying under his car.
He was in the country illegally, and driving illegally (without a license or insurance).
He got off lightly as she was partly to blame for the accident.
He then continued to drive , illegally and uninsured, he was also convicted of burglary and assault.,
Hang the bastard.
Re: UK Justice, does it exist?
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:08 am
by Sue U
Gob wrote:He ran off leaving a 12 year old girl dying under his car.
Yes yes. Cowardly and illegal to leave the scene and all that. But are you going to mete out death to everyone who leaves the scene of an accident? Do you have any idea how often motorists leave the scene? Especially those who are unlicensed/uninsured, and that's not even mentioning those driving under the influence. Well, death for them all then, at least there'll be plenty more room on the highways.
Gob wrote:He was in the country illegally,
Well, death for that, at a minimum!
Gob wrote: and driving illegally (without a license or insurance).
Death to all unlicensed/uninsured drivers! Certainly, violators of all administrative rules deserve death!
Gob wrote:He got off lightly as she was partly to blame for the accident.
Well, we can't have that. Death to all with less than 100% fault!
Gob wrote:He then continued to drive , illegally and uninsured,
I think we already covered this one. Death!
Gob wrote: he was also convicted of burglary and assault.,
Petty crimes = Death!
Gob wrote:Hang the bastard.
Well, of course!
Re: UK Justice, does it exist?
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:58 am
by Gob
Anyone who knocks down, and runs off, leaving a kid dying under their car, deserves death.
The rest is firpperies.
Re: UK Justice, does it exist?
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:06 am
by Gob
"Fripperies" even
Re: UK Justice, does it exist?
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:24 am
by Sue U
Gob wrote:Anyone who knocks down, and runs off, leaving a kid dying under their car, deserves death.
Why? Is a panicked reaction to an accident -- which you admit was not even entirely his fault -- equivalent in culpability to a premeditated murder?
Re: UK Justice, does it exist?
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:30 am
by Guinevere
Sean wrote:I agree to a point @W...
Certainly lock the fucker up but the UK taxpayer should not have to pay for his bed and board!
Then by all means deport him. But execution? I don't think so.
Re: UK Justice, does it exist?
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:41 am
by Gob
Sue U wrote:Gob wrote:Anyone who knocks down, and runs off, leaving a kid dying under their car, deserves death.
Why? Is a panicked reaction to an accident -- which you admit was not even entirely his fault -- equivalent in culpability to a premeditated murder?
Who says it was a "panicked reaction"? I'm more incliend to believe it was a reaction to the possibility of being deported which made him run.
And again, not stopping and offering assitance to the child and getting ambulances etc, that's murder in my book.
If the child involved had been one of my family I would happily execute him, pull the lever myself, pull the trigger, flick the switch.
Re: UK Justice, does it exist?
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:43 am
by Gob
Re: UK Justice, does it exist?
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:01 am
by loCAtek
You (the UK) have GOT to stop importing criminals. Making'em drive on the left side of the road does not improve their disposition.
Re: UK Justice, does it exist?
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:54 pm
by Miles
Given the known circumstances I think deportation would be damn generous for this guy. Just because he is applying for asylum should not give him preferential treatment. If they don't send him packing he should spend a considerable amount of time in jail.
editeded to add: There are enough looney Englishmen running around they don't need to import more slackers who aren't able to follow societies mores.
Re: UK Justice, does it exist?
Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:30 pm
by Gob
Miles wrote:
editeded to add: There are enough looney Englishmen running around they don't need to import more slackers who aren't able to follow societies mores.
So true.....
Re: UK Justice, does it exist?
Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:14 am
by Scooter
Gob wrote:He ran off leaving a 12 year old girl dying under his car.
He was in the country illegally, and driving illegally (without a license or insurance).
Where do you get that he was in the country illegally at the time of the accident?
This version gives the chronology quite clearly. He married a British woman in 2001, which would have gotten him legal residency. He ran over the girl in 2003, was jailed for four months. He got into various other trouble in subsequent years, which in its entirelty would have provided justification for a deportation order, which got him taken into custody last October. He appealed and got the order overturned.
This isn't a "the bastard wouldn't have been ablle to committ the crimes if he hadn't been here illegally" story. This is a "the guy's crimes may well have warranted deportation, but there were other lives to consider besides his own" story.
Re: UK Justice, does it exist?
Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:08 pm
by Gob
Ibrahim, who came to the UK in 2001, is believed to have exhausted his legal appeals to remain in the UK at the time of the crash and was to be sent back home.
But following a tortuous nine-year legal battle, he was later given the right to live here by a judge.
Following pressure from Amy's family, the UK Border Agency is appealing the judge's decision in a bid to have him deported.
His case will go before an appeal hearing at an Upper Tribunal of the Immigration and Asylum Chamber in Manchester later today.
Ibrahim pleaded guilty to driving while disqualified and without insurance and failing to stop after an accident, when he appeared in court in December 2003.
Magistrates were told though Amy had stepped into the road the accident would not have happened had Ibrahim not broken his driving ban.
But he was not deported at the time of the crash because of conditions in war-torn Iraq.
And after serving two months of his sentence he met a British woman and now has two children.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 34473.html
