I'm Not a US Citizen, I'm a person....

[Joe Guy]

I would like to know liberty's opinion of this guy...

If you can watch the entire three & one half minutes, it's worth your time...

[Guinevere]

"I don't wish to create joinder with you."

Hahahahahahahahahhaha. Dude, you have no idea what you're saying. Of course you're from Idaho.

"Leave your camera with your mother."

Oh. My. Goodness. Those court officers were great. You don't bully your way into a courtroom (unless, of course, you're a defendant or wish to become one )

[Gob]

OFFS ! http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Freeman_on_the_land

[Guinevere]

The tumbleweeds under "successes" are hysterical.

I get the need for and the importance of dissent. I believe in dissent. But this stuff is utter comedy.

[rubato]

He's had a nice memorable personal experience rich with sensory inputs the kind of thing from which so much can be learned.

I just hope he gets full value.

Either that or he comes back for another round which he films for our enjoyment.


yrs,
rubato

[Big RR]

Guin--sadly, it's comedy with a destructive edge. The ABA Journal had an article a few months back on some of these tactics and the problems they cause for some by tying up the courts with hundreds of incomprehensible motions, etc. People have had title to their property challenged with a forged document, then been tied up for months or years with one of these asses filing BS motion after BS motion. They seems like loons, but these tactics can cost a lot.

Edited to add a link to the article for those interested:
http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/arti ... al_filings

[liberty]

I would like to know liberty's opinion of this guy...

If you can watch the entire three & one half minutes, it's worth your time...

I know I very little about the Freemen. My understanding of US government come mostly from my study of US civics from the 1960’s. I still have the book. Of the points he was making I understand nothing, just because you say something doesn’t make it so.

One point he seemed to have backwards: We live in a system of duel citizenship, check the 14th amendment and I believe you will find it says that a person born in US is both a citizen of the United States and the State in which they live. The people that would have only a single citizenship would be those that live in territories such as DC. They would have only US citizenship.

Was tazing the guy justified, do you get to do that to people who irritate you?

[BoSoxGal]

I've had to deal with one of these folks - a sovereign citizen - the past few years and it's not fun. There is a lien on my property filed fraudulently by the guy - he did the same to the prior county attorney, the commissioners, and a few of the district judges plus the clerk of the state Supreme Court.


I don't think the use of the taser was justified, but it's become the first resort with too many LEOs. Considering the potential for harm that tasers pose, they shouldn't be utilized so liberally.

[wesw]

I think that the taser was ok, in this case.

no one was flustered or angered one bit by this mis-educated , loudmouthed momma s boy.

they calmly handled the situation with little force apparent,

there was another loudmouthed mis-educated teenager, of a more liberal bent I think, who was shot and where the cop was just recently exonerated. the kid was yelling and spouting false rights and refusing to obey lawful orders and eventually turned on the cop and punched him in the face.

what the hell are people doing?

vote Kasich.

[Big RR]

I agree about the tasing; it looked to me that they could have just placed him under arrest if they wanted when he tried to push his way in (or even better, just told him to back off). Indeed, though a loudmouth, he didn't appear to be particularly threatening.

I guess tasing varies from state to state; I've never seen it in the courts in NJ, and the court officers may not even have tasers, but all of the court officers are armed with handguns. I have seen a number of people arrested in the courtrooms (and halls) and from what I can see, the officers generally exercise a lot of restraint during the arrests despite he provocations of the person being arrested.

BSG--sorry to hear of your problems with the lien; these guys seems relentless and there's not a lot that can really be done to them under current laws (especially since I would guess most are judgment proof).

wes--I think the kid who was shot was more of a candidate for tasing, but this guy didn't act violently or even aggressively toward the officers, and it would appear they could have easily subdued and arrested him if that is what they wanted to do.

[wesw]

you may be right , RR, but once he tried to physically push his way thru to the courtroom , that it was their duty to defend, they had to act in an effective way, and quickly.

[Big RR]

Well, we don't have the view from their side, but it appeared to me he tried to push through (although in a not particularly aggressive manner) and then backed off, whereupon the security officer pulled out the taser. Once the taser was out there did not appear to be any further movement toward the officer on behalf of the guy (although he was still yelling about his rights being violated), and the officer just appeared to fire it at him. From what I could see, there didn't appear to be any immediate threat to them or the court that would justify that firing of the taser. Personally, I think the officer was just sick of listening to him and wanted to shut him up.

[Crackpot]

If that were type of society in which we lived Wes could power a small city

[BoSoxGal]

Taser are used far too liberally and have great potential to harm:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser_safety_issues

There are lots of other sources but the Wiki is a good starting point. I personally know a cop who was severely and permanently disabled by a taser in a controlled training exercise.

[Guinevere]

Well, we don't have the view from their side, but it appeared to me he tried to push through (although in a not particularly aggressive manner) and then backed off, whereupon the security officer pulled out the taser. Once the taser was out there did not appear to be any further movement toward the officer on behalf of the guy (although he was still yelling about his rights being violated), and the officer just appeared to fire it at him. From what I could see, there didn't appear to be any immediate threat to them or the court that would justify that firing of the taser. Personally, I think the officer was just sick of listening to him and wanted to shut him up.

When I looked at the video (and also shared it with the Swede), I sent it to him with the comment that were that officer my client, I would have advised him to wait a few more beats before engaging the taser. It looked to me like he pulled it out and then fired it fairly quickly, as the guy was trying to push into the courtroom. Given what we can see about the level of threat, I would have preferred him wave it about and even use the word "warning" once before firing.

But, as I know from reviewing the alleged improper use of a taser by one of my client's officers, use of all weapons is a judgment call for the officer, and they have pretty significant discretion.

[Guinevere]

Guin--sadly, it's comedy with a destructive edge. The ABA Journal had an article a few months back on some of these tactics and the problems they cause for some by tying up the courts with hundreds of incomprehensible motions, etc. People have had title to their property challenged with a forged document, then been tied up for months or years with one of these asses filing BS motion after BS motion. They seems like loons, but these tactics can cost a lot.

Edited to add a link to the article for those interested:
http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/arti ... al_filings

Oh I know. It's just been a long busy stressful month, and this guy hit me in the funny bone.

[wesw]

yeah, you are right about that, I think, bigsky.

[Big RR]

Apparently this happened in 2012, and the case came to court in 2013. After some of his BS (he initially refused to remove his hat or stand when the judge entered) it was set for trial. Apparently the prosecutors offered him an Alford plea (a plea where you maintain innocence but also admit the prosecution probably has enough evidence to convict, and so you take the plea) with no jail time (not sure I he also had to give up bringing any action against the officer as nothing was stated in the article) and he took it, so I guess even he has a limit to his stupidity.

guin--you are correct about the use of any weapon being a judgment call and, as I conceded, we did not see the encounter from the viewing angle of the officer, so it Is hard to make any definitive decision.

[dales]

We live in a system of duel citizenship....

Turn and fire at 20 paces?

You are now a proud citizen of the USA!

[wesw]

"i would have preferred him wave it about...."

I don t believe that waving any weapon about is wise or a part of any weapons training, except in the rarest of circumstances.

you may wish to free your weapon up for use if you determine the threat warrants, but a weapon should not be brought out to threaten.

if you raise your weapon it should be because you have to use it.