Plan B Forum

The top priority now is to send human rights monitors to insure he is not tortured onto talking. Any statements he makes should be assumed to be obtained under torture. After all, why would an dedicated ISIS member tell his enemy anything? ( just trying to be consistent)


http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/03/18 ... tcmp=hpbt1

Salah Abdeslam, the main fugitive from Islamic extremist attacks in Paris in November, was arrested in Belgium's capital Friday after four months at large, two French police officials told The Associated Press.

They said he was arrested in a major police operation in the Brussels neighborhood of Molenbeek. Both officials are in contact with people involved in the operation and spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about an ongoing operation.

Theo Francken, Belgium's secretary of state for asylum and migration, tweeted, "We hebben hem," which translates to English, "We got him."

Francken later removed the tweet after reports that other Belgium officials were unhappy that he broke the news.

The arrest would be a dramatic turn in the investigation that has vexed European officials for months.

Abdeslam fled Paris after the Nov. 13 gun and bomb attacks that killed 130 people at a theatre, the national stadium and cafes. Most of the Paris attackers died that night, including Abdeslam's brother Brahim, who blew himself up. The Islamic State terror group claimed responsibility for the attacks, in which Belgian nationals played key roles.

There are few details about the raids. Francois Schepmans, the mayor of Molenbeek, said two people were injured in the operation. Adbeslam suffered a gunshot wound to the leg, according to one city official.

French president Francois Hollande told reporters in Brussels he would not give details on the "operation that is under way."

Torture is only useful if you already KNOW what you want your prisoner to say and will do anything to get him to say it. For getting true, new information that you don't already know (or think you know; now that's even more dangerous!) it's not useful at all; there are much better tried-and-true methods of accomplishing that. (Ask any experienced interrogation expert who's not an arrogant bully, or a sociopath.)

It's most useful for dictatorial regimes who want a quick "confession" so they can jail or execute a political opponent. I still hold out fervent hope that that is *NOT* what we are becoming.

Hush


torture is about how you are really really really mad and want to inflict some nasty horror on someone else to reify your own sense of injury and diffuse your sense of incompetence.

Nothing to do with justice or rationality. All emotions, all the time.


yrs,
rubato

Amen Brother Rubato

The most important question for liberty is, Is Salah Abdeslam a racist?"

Econoline wrote:Torture is only useful if you already KNOW what you want your prisoner to say and will do anything to get him to say it. For getting true, new information that you don't already know (or think you know; now that's even more dangerous!) it's not useful at all; there are much better tried-and-true methods of accomplishing that. (Ask any experienced interrogation expert who's not an arrogant bully, or a sociopath.)

It's most useful for dictatorial regimes who want a quick "confession" so they can jail or execute a political opponent. I still hold out fervent hope that that is *NOT* what we are becoming.

Well, no one accused me of promoting torture which is good because I am not; what I promote are principles. If you believe in something you stick to it ; at least until it is proven definitely wrong. You might think that this odd but the person I admire most from world war II is not my fellow southerner Audie Murphy , but Hiroo Anado; the Japanese soldier who continued to fight for twenty nine years after the war was over. He believed he had to do his duty and he did his duty, that is admirable.

Now the French have the prisoner they so desperately wanted and the families of the victims think they are going to get some answers. But why should they; why should he cooperate, he now has the opportunity to regain the honor he lost when he failed to commit suicide. In his mind any cooperation with the French would be collaboration with enemy. He won’t talk and they can’ make him talk. If talks he was tortured and we then know the French are hypocrites

Apparently he has been talking without any need to torture him, which once again shows that the village idiot is talking out of his ass.

Exactly. Real interrogation experts know how to get the truth (as opposed to the answers you want to hear) and they know torture is almost always counterproductive. (And of course, as rubato points out, it's too often used as a form of punishment rather than a form of interrogation...)

If talks he was tortured make

I don’t see that in the news but I don’t have the time to do a detail search. But if the French are using any kind of threats or coercion that is the same as torture. Not only can they not do anything to him they can not let anyone else harm him as long as he is in their custody. In other words they can’t through him into the general population French prison where he might be abused, the revenge of French convicts would be the same as torture. If he talked, he was tortured and if the French Say he was not tortured they are lying. That is what I believe.

If the French have some kind of interrogation magic that works everyone would use it. It is like lie detector test, they just don’t work. That is too bad but that is the way it is.

you know....

...as often as I have denounced torture...., and dick cheney..., and jim....., and trump for supporting it too...

...if I had this guy in custody, and I believed he had friends that were going to attack again, and I believed that he knew who they were and where they were....

... I m really afraid that I would punch him repeatedly in the face until he told me the truth.

liberty wrote:I don’t see that in the news but I don’t have the time to do a detail search. But if the French are using any kind of threats or coercion that is the same as torture. Not only can they not do anything to him they can not let anyone else harm him as long as he is in their custody. In other words they can’t through him into the general population French prison where he might be abused, the revenge of French convicts would be the same as torture. If he talked, he was tortured and if the French Say he was not tortured they are lying. That is what I believe.

If the French have some kind of interrogation magic that works everyone would use it. It is like lie detector test, they just don’t work. That is too bad but that is the way it is.

He is not even in French custody yet, dickhead.

Jesus H. Christ on a trampoline, do you never tire of removing all doubt about what a moron you are?

And then of course we have a statement from the guy's own lawyer:

France is seeking Abdeslam’s extradition for trial there, but Mary said he would fight any attempt to hand over his client and that investigators have much to learn from the suspect, who was born in Belgium but has French and Moroccan nationality.

“Salah is of great importance to this investigation. I would even say that he is worth gold. He is co-operating, he is communicating, he is not insisting on his right to silence. I think it would be worthwhile now to give things a bit of time … for investigators to be able to talk to him,” Mary said.

As to the village idiot's concern about putting him in gen pop:

The prison has a special section for high-profile prisoners, with specially trained guards. Cells have double doors and any furniture or equipment is attached to the floor.

Yet one more swing and a miss for the guy whose mother regrets not having an abortion.

And as for this:

The Poster Boy for Forced Sterilization wrote:I don’t see that in the news

How about trying, gee, I don't know...reading it.

Econoline wrote:Torture is only useful if you already KNOW what you want your prisoner to say and will do anything to get him to say it. For getting true, new information that you don't already know (or think you know; now that's even more dangerous!) it's not useful at all; there are much better tried-and-true methods of accomplishing that. (Ask any experienced interrogation expert who's not an arrogant bully, or a sociopath.)

It's most useful for dictatorial regimes who want a quick "confession" so they can jail or execute a political opponent. I still hold out fervent hope that that is *NOT* what we are becoming.

I don’t like torture because of the brutality involved. The kind of people who would be attracted to such work would be People like Scooter who enjoy hurting people, the kind of people I don’t want to associate with, people like the executioner who enjoys his job.

I don’t even believe interrogation is good way to get to the truth. Surveillance both physical, audio and video is a much better way and should be used more liberally in law enforcement.

liberty wrote:[People like Scooter who enjoy hurting people

Yeah, and I used to pull the wings off butterflies and drown puppies, too. If that's what you have to believe to avoid facing the fact that you lack the brain capacity that God gave a parsnip, then have at it.

yes, liberty, scooter is a mean one, but....

...in all fairness..., just about everything in your post was misinformed.

it was so far removed from the facts of the matter that I just ignored it completely.

And that's coming from wes!

wesw wrote:yes, liberty, scooter is a mean one, but....

...in all fairness..., just about everything in your post was misinformed.

it was so far removed from the facts of the matter that I just ignored it completely.

Well, I messed up because I wasn’t intending to present any facts other than the guy was captured. It was meant to be all opinion.

You seriously think that was the major problem you had in this thread, the failure to distinguish fact from opinion.

Oh, my!

Just because my curiosity sometimes gets the best of me - please, pick any statement of your choosing from the lunatic ravings you posted in this thread, that you believe becomes defensible when it is understood to be "opinion", rather than "fact".