Plan B Forum

A friend and his wife have decided to hang a millstone and an unpaid part-time job around his neck. Yes, he wants to buy a house. So, he's been looking. There have been the usual dumps, postage stamps, overpriced 70's crap, and bizarre HOA rules...but one yesterday took the cake. He was looking at a decent-looking ranch, went inside...and whoa, that smells bad. Like, REALLY bad. Like, wow, someone took a really nasty dump.

Turns out that at some point (probably last weekend's open house), someone went into the master bath and did an upper decker. That is: they took a dump...in the toilet tank.

Probably an ex-spouse

Jarlaxle wrote:A friend and his wife have decided to hang a millstone and an unpaid part-time job around his neck.

Now that's certainly a picturesque description of home ownership.

oldr_n_wsr wrote:Probably an ex-spouse

I think it was Scooter who posted about the ex who put the caviar and shrimp into the curtain rods. The above means of revenge is much quicker to, um, apply.

I didn't realize how much WORK a house was until I stopped doing it.

I agree that they are a lot of work, and I'm not the world's greatest DIYer, but I can count the number of times I've called in a repairman in 33 years of owning my present house on one hand, and still have a finger left over to scratch my (whatever).

I didn't lay the carpet in the living/dining room or basement, but I did do the bedrooms.

I hired a company to install a water sourced heat pump to replace one that was dying after 28-1/2 years about a year ago. It's a Bosch. They took over Florida Heat Pump that made the old one.

We bought a new Bosch (not that I'm in love with them) dishwasher six weeks ago that came with "free" installation. Obviously the installation was built into Lowes' price, but I let them do it.

BTW, I installed the Kenmore dishwasher that it replaced 16 years ago. I've worked on it a couple of times. I bought that one, in part, because it was supposed to be quiet. It was very noisy compared to the new Bosch unit which is so silent that I heard a cat walking cross the (self installed) vinyl floor in the kitchen while it was washing. Granted he needs his claws trimmed. I'll call on Mrs Mc for that, but she's most always there. She's in Wyoming for her aunt's funeral as I type. The cat can wait. She'll be home tomorrow night.

Jarlaxle wrote:I didn't realize how much WORK a house was until I stopped doing it.

Oh man is THAT true! I loved my house but I also loathed it, and I don't miss it. I'll never buy a house again unless I win the lotto and someone else can do ALL the cleaning, maintenance, etc.

I do some repairs myself and the daily cleaning, but I have a very good, reliable, reasonable contractor to do major work, plus a cleaning lady for once a month deep cleans. And a stable of local professionals for other chores I don't have the time or interest in doing. Plus very handy Swede (although I mostly use him to consult, not for labor, even though he is always ready to roll up his sleeves and tinker).

It works fine for me, the tax deductions are helpful, and I have always loved owning my own space. Never felt like a millstone, always (and still) feels like freedom!

I do all my own repairs/installs/construction. I don't trust anyone else. I was burned a bit with the extension we had put on the house. Never again.
Although when the oil burner goes (35+ years old) I will get someone else to do it.
And when the pipe to the cesspool broke (under the extension of course) I had people in to do that part of the plumbing and put in new cesspools. But I was so ready to learn how to operate a backhoe.

It is definitely a tradeoff between owning and renting a place. Either side has plusses. If I rented it would be a townhouse/condo because if I can't decide what goes into the yard I'm not going to bother with it; the pleasure of having a yard is in being able to experiment freely, to try things and plant things that will make my wife laugh like the dracunculis.



The tax thing is huge, as Guin. says. If you just calculate it as 'housing costs' and ignore the equity increase (which is very small in the first decade of a mortgage anyway) the fact that you are paying ca. 85% of your mortgage with pre-tax dollars* makes the equivalent situation like this:

Comparing two local houses w/ similar valuation:
........................Pre tax % ..... Net cost.
Mortgage = 2,600 .... 85% ..... $ 2,860
Rent = 2,600 .... 0% ..... $ 4333.33
Difference ..................... = $1473.33 mo.

Being able to pay the mortgage interest with pre-tax dollars is a huge savings if you are in a higher marginal tax bracket although this does not include the cost of the cash you have to put up for a downpayment; you are losing any investment income you would have realised from, it. Using the house prices from the above example a 20% down payment would be $160,000 which, over a longer time period and using conservative estimates, realize about 6.5% yr or $866.67 per month. 1473.33 - 866.67 = $ 606.66 mo, still signifcant even w/o considering the equity increase over time.


I'm more willing to hire out to get things done now. We have people come in every two weeks to clean. I finally stopped trying to do things that I was capable of but took me 3x as long as someone who does it all the time. And, really, I hate lying on my back under the sink.

yrs,
rubato

* In the early years of a 30-year fixed.

Rube -- vast swaths of Americans live in homes worth numbers closer to your 20% downpayment figure than the 800K sales price in your example. The median new home price is around $185K. Your math would be vastly different in that scenario.

Guinevere wrote:Rube -- vast swaths of Americans live in homes worth numbers closer to your 20% downpayment figure than the 800K sales price in your example. The median new home price is around $185K. Your math would be vastly different in that scenario.

The ratios would be the same if that were the only difference but the net differences would be less. On the other hand, the marginal tax rate does make a huge difference. The lower the tax rate the smaller the advantage of buying. I was using a marginal rate (state + federal ) of 40% because I knew the numbers for that.


Which serves to illustrate how deeply the mortgage interest exemption is unfair to people of lower income. One thing we should do is limit the size of the mortgage to which it can be applied.


yrs,
rubato

oldr_n_wsr wrote:I do all my own repairs/installs/construction. I don't trust anyone else.

Happy to admit I'm no use at DIY, I cannot rewire a plug without burning the house down. Luckily I have friends in most trades, who give me "mates rates".

"Friends? I've got friends I haven't even used yet!"

The only things I had done when I rebuilt my current house was install the carpet and install the heat pump. The former because the house has stairs and I'd rather keep my knees, and the latter because I don't own the equipment necessary to evacuate the refrigerant lines and do the proper testing of the system.

I did everything else- the addition was almost entirely replaced- I left the foundation and the roof joists, everything else was replaced (floor joists, subfloor, every stud, sheathing, siding, windows, doors, wiring, plumbing, drywall). But when you buy a fixer-upper for less than the value of the bare land, they need a lot of work. Well, I can't say I did it all myself- my Mom came by almost every day to help. Plus she has a table saw and a chop saw, which I don't.

I think oldr_n_wsr just fell in love with your mom.

Mmm,table saw a must have .

Gob wrote:Luckily I have friends in most trades, who give me "mates rates".

Has he made you squeal like a pig yet?

He can't, because I always wear these....

Econoline wrote:I think oldr_n_wsr just fell in love with your mom.

You got that right.
Portable Table saw-$274.99
Chop saw-$129.99
Mom who knows how to use them - priceless

I don't get this fascination with table saws...

How often do you have to saw a table? Wouldn't it make better sense to buy a saw with a wider range of applications?