Plan B Forum

Posted: **Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:54 pm**

I have been puzzled the past couple of days as to why Charlotte (where the officer involved in the shooting is black, and the issue of use of excessive force is far from clear based on what is currently in the public record) has suffered two nights of widespread rioting, while in Tulsa (where the shooting involved a white officer, and the excessive use of force is fairly obvious) the protests have involved absolutely no violence...

Here's an article that suggests what at least part of the answer to that may be:

Oklahoma protests stay peaceful in wake of Tulsa shooting

OKLAHOMA - Images of protestors looting and rioting in Charlotte, North Carolina made the rounds Tuesday night and Wednesday morning.

It’s a scene that’s played out in many cities around our country after deadly officer involved shootings.

But, protests in Tulsa have remained peaceful after the shooting of an unarmed black man there Friday night.

Terence Crutcher was shot and killed by Tulsa police officer, Betty Shelby.

Police said he was refusing to obey their commands after they came to assist when his car broke down in the middle of a Tulsa road.

Tuesday night, protestors gathered peacefully in front of the Tulsa Police Department.

It was a stark contrast to the riots in North Carolina.

Many in our community said the reason it has stayed peaceful in our state is churches have taken an active role.

“We’re angry. I mean, don’t get me wrong. We’re angry here in Oklahoma just like everywhere else, and we should be,” said Pastor Theodis Manning.

Manning is the pastor of the Divine Wisdom Worship Center in Midwest City.

He said, despite the anger, he’s encouraging his congregation to be peaceful.

He said answering violence with violence never works and churches all over the metro are taking a proactive stance.

“We got churches having town hall meetings with law enforcement and city and state officials, I mean, all over the city,” Manning said.

“Everything’s not perfect, but the efforts are being made,” said Clarence Hill, Jr. with Stronger Together OKC.

His group promotes peace, unity and seeking ways to ease racial tension.

“We have several what I call champions in our city who are doing great things on the ground level. It’s why Oklahoma City has not seen many flare ups,” Hill said.

On local radio station, 92.1FM, their morning open mic talk show devoted a lot of time to the situation in Tulsa.

“We try to provide an outlet for our listeners,” said Terry Monday with Perry Publishing and Broadcasting.

They said there are a good number of people who are fearful.

“With racial tension everywhere, it’s just kind of just festering, and it’s scary what could happen,” said radio host Nikki Nice.

The executive director of Black Lives Matter OKC, T. Sheri Dickerson, said they have a protest planned for Saturday in Tulsa but plan to keep it peaceful.

http://kfor.com/2016/09/21/oklahoma-pro ... -shooting/

It appears that where religious and other community leaders committed to non-violence have strong influence within their community, and those leaders also have on-going good relations and communication with local law enforcement and government leaders, you see far less violence when these sorts of tragedies happen...

Gee, who'd a thunk it...

Posted: **Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:08 am**

And maybe it has something to do with the authorities in Tulsa engaging with the community in a spirit of transparency, while the authorities in Charlotte have not.

Posted: **Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:40 am**

Perhaps the the geographical location has a little to do with the reaction ?

Posted: **Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:40 pm**

I think Scooter has a point there; the best way to calm people down is to talk with them--not to stonewall.

Posted: **Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:33 pm**

Scooter wrote:And maybe it has something to do with the authorities in Tulsa engaging with the community in a spirit of transparency, while the authorities in Charlotte have not.

And the officer was charged.

yrs,
rubato

Posted: **Fri Sep 23, 2016 6:13 pm**

Releasing the video immediately in Tulsa made a big difference, so did the attitude of police AT the protests AND the involvement of clergy.

Clergy got involved yesterday and last night's protests were largely peaceful in Charlotte. Also, the national guard was there and very welcomed by the protesters, who hugged them and shook their hands. They presented a very different face to the protesters than the Charlotte riot police did the night before, so I think that made a big difference too.

Posted: **Fri Sep 23, 2016 6:35 pm**

If he is close to accurate, this might explain a part of the difference.

Charlotte-Mecklenburg Fraternal Order of Police spokesman Todd Walther told CNN's Erin Burnett Thursday night that 70% of those arrested in race riots in that city this week were not locals.

"This is not Charlotte that's out here," he said. "These are outside entities that are coming in and causing these problems. These are not protestors, these are criminals."

"I'm not saying all the people, but we've got the instigators that are coming in from the outside. They were coming in on buses from out of state. If you go back and look at some of the arrests that were made last night. I can about say probably 70% of those had out-of-state IDs. They're not coming from Charlotte."

Posted: **Fri Sep 23, 2016 6:37 pm**

That was a huge problem in Ferguson too...

Posted: **Fri Sep 23, 2016 6:58 pm**

This is not Charlotte that's out here," he said. "These are outside entities that are coming in and causing these problems. These are not protestors, these are criminals

where have I heard this before? Outside agitators and other labels applied to MLK and his protestors? The more things change...

Posted: **Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:03 pm**

I know, eh? That's the thought that entered my head, how you would have heard about how "our n-gg-rs" didn't have any problems with the way things were.

Posted: **Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:06 pm**

It's either true or it isn't true. However, I don't see anywhere enshrined in law that people from different states are not permitted to travel to other states to register their disapproval or protest. This is particularly so when the thing being protested is not a single local event but is representative of a trend that is experienced on the national level.

Those naughty boys and girls who travelled the buses south to Mississippi in the 60s were just awful, nichts wahr?

I think DC police could say with some certainty that more than 90% of the people at most protests there are not DC residents.

Posted: **Fri Sep 23, 2016 7:11 pm**

Go Meade!

Posted: **Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:34 pm**

You probably could say that most of the police that respond to the protests don't live in those cities either. They're mostly outside enforcementators.

Posted: **Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:45 pm**

Except it is a false analogy. In 1950-60's Alabama (and much of the rest of the U.S.) there were laws of discrimination on the books that were being protested. There was no ambiguity to the situation -- either you thought a state had the right to have segregation laws or you thought that was wrong. In the current situation, the protest is based on the belief that there is discrimination that is vaguely ascribed as ingrained in the system. But in the vast majority of cases of lethal police action, the use of force is justified; only a fraction the of time is the police action partially or totally unjustified. Thus, in Charlotte, as in Ferguson, it is more likely that the shooting was justified than not, so what is being protested in Charlotte? In contrast, in the Civil Rights movement, the segregation laws were wrong all the time, so a protest could be made anywhere, any time, and be a valid protest. Similarly, while many of us disagree with the method of the national anthem protest, it is at least aimed at the general issue, and so arguably could raise awareness of the need for better police practices.

Posted: **Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:53 pm**

Maybe it's just me, but personally I see a fairly substantial qualitative difference between people showing up from outside a community to risk their own safety to peacefully protest an injustice, (the 60's civil rights protests) and people showing up to throw rocks and bottles, break windows, smash cars, and set stuff on fire...

But like I said, maybe that's just me...

ETA:

Oh, and I meant to do this earlier, (but somehow it slipped my mind)

Let me take a moment to give a well deserved shout-out to Colin Kaepernick, for bringing the whole question of minority community/police relations to the country's attention...

The history of this clearly shows that without his heroic and courageous actions in bringing this issue to the fore, there is no doubt that both of these tragic incidents would have gone completely unreported in the national media...

So here's to you Colin...

A grateful nation salutes you...

Posted: **Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:44 pm**

I think the attitude of Oklahoma, as a whole (hole?), toward blacks is very different than NC's. There may well be more dissension between whites and the native American population than there is black/white. OK was one of the last US territories to have native Americans thrust into it by the government, and then have the area stolen by whites. Ever hear of "Sooners"?

Posted: **Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:22 pm**

No ambiguity in my mind. Either the cops are authorized to shoot people because they scare the cop, or they are not.

snailgate.

Posted: **Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:57 pm**

Big RR wrote:
This is not Charlotte that's out here," he said. "These are outside entities that are coming in and causing these problems. These are not protestors, these are criminals
where have I heard this before? Outside agitators and other labels applied to MLK and his protestors? The more things change...

So, then...are you claiming the spokesman is lying, then?

Posted: **Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:24 pm**

Lord Jim wrote:"...

Oh, and I meant to do this earlier, (but somehow it slipped my mind)

Let me take a moment to give a well deserved shout-out to Colin Kaepernick, for bringing the whole question of minority community/police relations to the country's attention...

The history of this clearly shows that without his heroic and courageous actions in bringing this issue to the fore, there is no doubt that both of these tragic incidents would have gone completely unreported in the national media...

So here's to you Colin...

A grateful nation salutes you...

A reminder to thank MLK for all of his years-long efforts to publicize the oppression and brutal treatment of blacks:

Surely that is why the march over the Edmund Pettis bridge did not end in mass beatings of peaceful marchers by police.

A big shout out to both of them! A grateful nation thanks you, dead and alive.

Yrs,
Rubato.

Posted: **Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:00 pm**

Ah yes, Martin Luther King, Colin Kaepernick...

One can scarcely think of one without thinking of the other...

Plan B Forum

A Tale Of Two Cities...

A Tale Of Two Cities...

Re: A Tale Of Two Cities...

Re: A Tale Of Two Cities...

Re: A Tale Of Two Cities...

Re: A Tale Of Two Cities...

Re: A Tale Of Two Cities...

Re: A Tale Of Two Cities...

Re: A Tale Of Two Cities...

Re: A Tale Of Two Cities...

Re: A Tale Of Two Cities...

Re: A Tale Of Two Cities...

Re: A Tale Of Two Cities...

Re: A Tale Of Two Cities...

Re: A Tale Of Two Cities...

Re: A Tale Of Two Cities...

Re: A Tale Of Two Cities...

Re: A Tale Of Two Cities...

Re: A Tale Of Two Cities...

Re: A Tale Of Two Cities...

Re: A Tale Of Two Cities...