Plan B Forum

Arkansas will become the first US state in 17 years to hold two executions on the same day, if two inmates are put to death as planned on Monday evening.

Lawyers for Jack Jones and Marcel Williams are seeking stays of execution on grounds of poor health.

Do people have to be in good health to be executed?

Gob - It's all that lip-smacking prison chow.

One down... one to go.

And welcome, "Justice Gorsuch." Not.

Jones was sent to death row for the 1995 rape and killing of Mary Phillips.  He strangled her with the cord to a coffee pot.  He was also convicted of attempting to kill Phillips' 11-year-old daughter and was convicted in another rape and killing in Florida.

Williams was sent to death row for the 1994 rape and killing of 22-year-old Stacy Errickson, whom he kidnapped from a gas station in central Arkansas.  Authorities said Williams abducted and raped two other women in the days before he was arrested in Errickson's death.  Williams admitted responsibility to the state Parole Board last month.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-arkansas-double-execution-20170424-story.html

It took 20 years for them to pay the price of their crimes and for justice to be served.  They should have been put to death at least fifteen years ago.

-"BB"-

This round of double-blind drug trials is now complete.

Next up... human testing.

Bicycle Bill wrote:

Jones was sent to death row for the 1995 rape and killing of Mary Phillips.  He strangled her with the cord to a coffee pot.  He was also convicted of attempting to kill Phillips' 11-year-old daughter and was convicted in another rape and killing in Florida.

Williams was sent to death row for the 1994 rape and killing of 22-year-old Stacy Errickson, whom he kidnapped from a gas station in central Arkansas.  Authorities said Williams abducted and raped two other women in the days before he was arrested in Errickson's death.  Williams admitted responsibility to the state Parole Board last month.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-arkansas-double-execution-20170424-story.html

It took 20 years for them to pay the price of their crimes and for justice to be served.  They should have been put to death at least fifteen years ago.

-"BB"-

I don't know, if you want to punish them, waiting 20 years in the shadow of the hangman's noose (OK, needle) which can come at any time would have to be a far greater price to pay than a quick and easy death, wouldn't you think?

What I'll never understand is why anyone would care if they suffer before they die by the needle. That seems to be part of the argument for commuting their death sentences. I'm willing to bet that the girls they raped and murdered did not die painlessly.

The reason Arkansas gives for having several executions before the end of April is that at least one of the three drugs they use is about to reach its expiration date. If the "medication" used in the scheduled Arkansas executions expires, I say hanging is a good idea. Rope has no expiration date. Supposedly, once their necks snap, there is no feeling below that point. It MIGHT give them a few seconds, maybe minutes, to think about how much they enjoyed what they did. I remember having a discussion about this with my step-father when Hickock and Smith, the In Cold Blood killers were hung.

In 1966 I bought a pamphlet about Timothy Evans, who was hanged for the murder of his wife. (England, 1950s.) They eventually made a movie with John Hurt as Evans and Richard Attenborough as John Christie. After Evans was hanged, Christie (Evans' landlord who lived below them) was found to have murdered three other women; and all the evidence points to Christie having also murdered Evans' wife and child. Ever since then I have been against the death penalty, for the simple reason that it is irreversible. There was no outcry when Evans was hanged - he was a low IQ person for whom justice was a steamroller. I do not care how guilty someone is thought to be: there should be no penalty which cannot, in some way, be reversed and if necessary compensated for as much as possible in the event that it is found to be wrong. There may be an infinitesimally low chance of that happening: but infinitesimal is still finite. And with miscarriages of justice we have seen on both sides of the Atlantic (IRA "bombers", for example; and the dozens found not guilty by various innocence projects)

MGMcAnick wrote:What I'll never understand is why anyone would care if they suffer before they die by the needle. That seems to be part of the argument for commuting their death sentences. I'm willing to bet that the girls they raped and murdered did not die painlessly.

The reason Arkansas gives for having several executions before the end of April is that at least one of the three drugs they use is about to reach its expiration date. If the "medication" used in the scheduled Arkansas executions expires, I say hanging is a good idea. Rope has no expiration date. Supposedly, once their necks snap, there is no feeling below that point. It MIGHT give them a few seconds, maybe minutes, to think about how much they enjoyed what they did. I remember having a discussion about this with my step-father when Hickock and Smith, the In Cold Blood killers were hung.

Civilized societies that still permit execution have looked for the most humane ways to execute throughout history. One of the primary aims is to develop methods that do not depend on the skill of the executioner--so beheading by axe/sword gave way to the guillotine, which then gave way to firing squads, hanging, execution and lethal gas, and now the lethal injection. In all of them, the idea is to kill quickly and efficiently--infliction of pain and discomfort is to be avoided (and such may well be cruel and unusual punishment in the US--hence the abandonment of lethal gas).

Hanging can be painless, but you need a trained hangman who knows the properties of the rope and how to calculate the drop, etc., to result in a broken neck--there are not many (if any) who can do that in the US now. and when a hanging is botched, it can be agony for the person being executed.

Firing Squad, problem solved.

I agree, if you have well trained marksmen who do not miss (or perhaps a machine that can shoot could be developed). But it's been a long time (since Gary Gilmore as I recall) since it has been used in the US. I personally think it would be preferable to bringing back any of the other methods.

(or perhaps a machine that can shoot could be developed).

Mythbusters rigged a rifle many times to shoot very accurately at a fixed point on a target.
Clamp the head and put the rifle in a vise. Low tech works.
Not really a big problem.

True, but then would it be permanently mounted or would it require some sort of expert calibration each time it is used? I have no doubt a mchine could be madt to shoot accurately, but then we would have to consider what sort of support it would need.

A pedastel bolted to the floor and a soft-jaw vise.

I am against the death penalty in almost all cases because I simply don't trust the court system.

I sight my rifle in right before I go hunting and/or when shooting at the range.
A solid surface with a vise and maximum of three shots usually is all I need to get it sighted in. Two shots is normal.

ex-khobar Andy wrote:In 1966 I bought a pamphlet about Timothy Evans, who was hanged for the murder of his wife. (England, 1950s.) They eventually made a movie with John Hurt as Evans and Richard Attenborough as John Christie. After Evans was hanged, Christie (Evans' landlord who lived below them) was found to have murdered three other women; and all the evidence points to Christie having also murdered Evans' wife and child. Ever since then I have been against the death penalty, for the simple reason that it is irreversible. There was no outcry when Evans was hanged - he was a low IQ person for whom justice was a steamroller. I do not care how guilty someone is thought to be: there should be no penalty which cannot, in some way, be reversed and if necessary compensated for as much as possible in the event that it is found to be wrong. There may be an infinitesimally low chance of that happening: but infinitesimal is still finite. And with miscarriages of justice we have seen on both sides of the Atlantic (IRA "bombers", for example; and the dozens found not guilty by various innocence projects)

Excellent point ExKA. Another is the question: do we want to give to the state the right to take a life in cold blood.

yrs,
rubato