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And if United Airlines hadn't self-inflicted enough wounds
Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:18 pm
by Scooter
They have decided that seeing every father as a potential child molester is a great customer relations strategy:
United Airlines Apologizes For Accusing Gay Dad Of Having Hands “Too Close” To Son’s Genitals
United Airlines has apologized for accusing a gay father of having his hands “too close” to his son’s genitals.
Joel Amador-Batten said that his husband Henry was accosted by a flight attendant as he was disembarking a United plane at Raleigh-Durham International Airport with his 5-year-old son late last week. Allegedly, the attendant saw that Amador-Batten’s arm was laying across his son’s lap and told him he was too close to the child’s genitals.
He was then led away from the rest of the group and detained at the airport.
“Tonight my husband was detained after disembarking a United flight to RDU because a member of the flight crew made an accusation that my husband’s hand/arm laying across my sleeping son’s lap was too close to the ’child’s genitals,'” Joel wrote on Facebook last Friday.
“This is not how anyone deserves to be treated. This is not something that should have happened in front of my son.”
He went on to explain that the couple are currently in the process of adopting their second child and that this latest incident wouldn’t stop them from showing “the same affection [they] always have.”
He concluded: “These momentary hate-fueled situations are hopefully temporary but the love and nurturing we give our children will last their entire lifetime.”
A United Airlines spokesperson has since issued an apology on behalf of the airline: “Our customers should always be treated with the utmost respect. We have followed up with the customer directly and we apologized for the situation.”
Unsatisfied with the apology, the couple now plan to take legal action against United.
“Based on the horrible situation that they placed him in front of their son and other people on the plane, we are going to vigorously pursue to be compensated by the airline for this horrible embarrassing treatment,” said their lawyer, Kenneth Padowitz.
Re: And if United Airlines hadn't self-inflicted enough woun
Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 3:21 pm
by Big RR
That sounds ridiculous; somehow I doubt it wouldn't even have been remarked on if a mom (or even a non gay dad) did the same thing. The old "gays are pedophile who victimize young boys" prejudice likely played a role in this.
Re: And if United Airlines hadn't self-inflicted enough woun
Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 3:33 pm
by Lord Jim
A United Airlines spokesperson has since issued an apology on behalf of the airline:
The person with the job of issuing apologies at United Airlines is one of the busiest and most over-worked people in America...
That poor guy has really earned a vacation...
Re: And if United Airlines hadn't self-inflicted enough woun
Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 4:53 pm
by Joe Guy
Oh boy! A great opportunity to make big money. After they sue United they can go out and buy a new house and a BMW to ease their emotional pain.
Re: And if United Airlines hadn't self-inflicted enough woun
Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:22 pm
by Big RR
Well Joe Guy, if you can tell me a better way to get United's attention and force them to live up the responsibilities and the law, I'd love to hear it. Someone that is so cheap as to charge for the use of a pillow only learns when its wallet is hit, and paying passenger have every right to demand service free of this BS. Having a guy detained because you didn't like the way he put his arm across his son? Please!
Re: And if United Airlines hadn't self-inflicted enough woun
Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:34 pm
by Joe Guy
I'm tired of people expecting money every time someone upsets them. Now that flight attendant will either lose his/her job or continue working and be afraid to report any suspicious behavior.
I'm sure United gave the couple more than an apology. They don't need to award someone millions of dollars every time an employee makes a mistake.
And we're accepting that everything in the article is accurate and there was no reason to suspect anything was wrong and that the man was picked on only because he is gay.
Re: And if United Airlines hadn't self-inflicted enough woun
Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:51 pm
by Big RR
Joe Guy--where in the world do you see that this was "suspicious behavior"? Do you honestly see the same thing happening if it had been a woman? Or if the flight attendant didn't at least think the person was gay? I don't, and the fact that he was not charged and that United quickly apologized makes me pretty certain that there was no "suspicious behavior. I don't know the age of the child, but I can recall travelling with both of my daughters on my lap and am sure when I probably could have been accused of the same thing (not to mention the times I took them in the restroom to change their diapers). If anyone accused me of something sexual, I'd be damn pissed as well (not to mention how traumatic it would be to my child to have me detained and the child held by others).
As for getting "millions of dollars" I certainly doubt this is the case where an award of that magnitude would be given, and if there was a basis for the concern, it can be raised at trial. But the only way to get United to stop the crap is to hit them where it hurts, in the wallet.
As for your last statement, the article is all I have to go on, but I see no reason to dispute it. And as for him being picked on because he is gay, I seriously doubt the attendant would even have noticed or thought anything if (s)he did not know (or at least think) that he was gay. I doubt anyone would care where a strait father's arm (not even hand) was on his sleeping son.
Re: And if United Airlines hadn't self-inflicted enough woun
Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 6:18 pm
by Joe Guy
Joe Guy--where in the world do you see that this was "suspicious behavior"?
My point is that all attendants might now hesitate and may not report something that
should be reported.
However wrong the attendant was and upsetting this is to people, the attendant's main concern was for the child. Should United Airlines' policy be to not act on a suspicion if one of the suspects is gay?
What ever happened to accepting a sincere apology and moving on with your life? Does getting money from a large corporation fix everything?
Humbug!
Re: And if United Airlines hadn't self-inflicted enough woun
Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 7:54 pm
by Big RR
However wrong the attendant was and upsetting this is to people, the attendant's main concern was for the child.
This is what I seriously doubt.
Should United Airlines' policy be to not act on a suspicion if one of the suspects is gay?
Of course not, and I don't think anyone is saying that.
What ever happened to accepting a sincere apology and moving on with your life? Does getting money from a large corporation fix everything?
a. That ended when the apologies were not sincere and the behavior never changed.
b. No, but it defitely gets the corporation's attention and shows them there is a cost for not changing this behavior.
Re: And if United Airlines hadn't self-inflicted enough woun
Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 8:13 pm
by Scooter
Joe Guy wrote:My point is that all attendants might now hesitate and may not report something that should be reported.
Yes, I'm sure that there are countless examples of child molesters being caught in the act on airplanes by observant flight attendants.
However wrong the attendant was and upsetting this is to people, the attendant's main concern was for the child.
Now who is making assumptions?
Does getting money from a large corporation fix everything?
The role of a corporation is to generate profits for its shareholders. That means that money is the only language that matters to a corporation.
Re: And if United Airlines hadn't self-inflicted enough woun
Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 9:32 pm
by Lord Jim
Joe Guy wrote:
My point is that all attendants might now hesitate and may not report something that should be reported.
Yes, I'm sure that there are countless examples of child molesters being caught in the act on airplanes by observant flight attendants.
I was thinking the same thing...
Most child molesters are pretty cunning (that's how so many of them get away with it for so long) they generally try to have as secure and private a place to carry out their vile behavior as possible; it seems
very improbable to me that a genuine pedophile would be trying to "cop a feel" in a place as public as a commercial air flight...
If this were a case where someone had been mistakenly identified as a potential hijacker or plane bomber, I'd be
much more concerned about disciplinary action towards the flight attendant having a chilling effect on the willingness of other flight attendants to report "suspicious" behavior, (since hijackings and plane bombings actually happen) but I suspect that instances of child molestation on commercial air flights (especially in broad daylight) are pretty close to non-existent...
Re: And if United Airlines hadn't self-inflicted enough woun
Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 10:27 pm
by rubato
United Airlines Apologizes For Accusing Gay Dad Of Having Hands “Too Close” To Son’s Genitals
This attendant thinks that people change diapers with tongs? Nitrile gloves?
yrs,
rubato
Re: And if United Airlines hadn't self-inflicted enough woun
Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 10:42 pm
by ex-khobar Andy
A five year old is not going to be travelling by himself, so it is reasonable to assume that at least one of those sitting next to him is the father or at least someone to whom he has been entrusted. It would take a particularly ballsy paedophile to be assaulting the child in that situation.
I respect flight attendants for the most part. But I do recall getting into an argument with one at the start of a transatlantic flight when our daughter was just a year old. We paid for a ticket for her and she was safely strapped into her car seat which was in turn strapped to the airline seat. The flight attendant came by and told me that she would be safer in my arms and requested that I take her out of the seat. My daughter was a sturdy 20 lbs or more, and it does not take a deep knowledge of elementary physics to realize that I would have no chance of holding on in the event of some sudden takeoff calamity. I remonstrated along these lines with the FA but she wasn't having it. Eventually she called the pilot down - he took one look at the car seat and told the FA it was fine.
Re: And if United Airlines hadn't self-inflicted enough woun
Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 10:53 pm
by Joe Guy
However wrong the attendant was and upsetting this is to people, the attendant's main concern was for the child.
Big RR wrote:This is what I seriously doubt.
What do you think was the flight attendant's concern?
What ever happened to accepting a sincere apology and moving on with your life? Does getting money from a large corporation fix everything?
Big RR wrote:
a. That ended when the apologies were not sincere and the behavior never changed.
b. No, but it defitely gets the corporation's attention and shows them there is a cost for not changing this behavior.
a. What makes you think that in this case an apology wasn't sincere?
b. I don't believe in giving money to people for being embarrassed or unfairly treated. I do think the guy should have gotten some compensation, like a free pillow (
), okay a free flight or something, but the idea that he is going to "vigorously pursue to be compensated" sounds like someone wants to take advantage of an opportunity to make money.
Re: And if United Airlines hadn't self-inflicted enough woun
Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 11:01 pm
by Joe Guy
Joe Guy wrote:My point is that all attendants might now hesitate and may not report something that should be reported.
Scooter wrote:Yes, I'm sure that there are countless examples of child molesters being caught in the act on airplanes by observant flight attendants.
I see. It doesn't happen regularly so nobody should be concerned and act when it is suspected.
However wrong the attendant was and upsetting this is to people, the attendant's main concern was for the child.
Scooter wrote:Now who is making assumptions?
Is it too much of a stretch of logic to assume that a flight attendant was concerned for the child's welfare because he thought a man was fondling a child? What do you think? Was he concerned that the child might pee on the man's hand?
Does getting money from a large corporation fix everything?
Scooter wrote:The role of a corporation is to generate profits for its shareholders. That means that money is the only language that matters to a corporation.
And apparently money is all that matters to people who are offended.
Re: And if United Airlines hadn't self-inflicted enough woun
Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 11:21 pm
by Scooter
Doesn't happen regularly? How about doesn't happen EVER.
As to the flight attendent's motivations, the fact that she saw a child with two dads and immediately jumped to the conclusion that the child was being sexually abused pretty much sums it up.
And I recognize that you live in a universe all of your own where things would be done differently, but the in the world that the rest of us inhabit, societies decided long ago that injuries inflicted on someone by the tortious conduct of another should be compensated with money. These guys didn't invent that system, and there is no reason why they should forfeit any claim for reparations for the injury inflicted on them to satisfy your philosophy that money isn't the appropriate means of compensating them.
If a court could actually order such a thing, I would much prefer that she be ordered to work every flight for the next five years wearing a sign that says "I falsely accused a passenger of molesting his child", because then she might experience a sliver of the humiliation she inflicted on those parents with her vile and baseless accusation. But as that isn't likely to be an option, money will have to do.
Re: And if United Airlines hadn't self-inflicted enough woun
Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 11:37 pm
by Joe Guy
Scooter wrote:As to the flight attendent's motivations, the fact that she saw a child with two dads and immediately jumped to the conclusion that the child was being sexually abused pretty much sums it up.
Then you agree that the child's welfare was her concern.
Scooter wrote:And I recognize that you live in a universe all of your own where things would be done differently, but the in the world that the rest of us inhabit, societies decided long ago that injuries inflicted on someone by the tortious conduct of another should be compensated with money. These guys didn't invent that system, and there is no reason why they should forfeit any claim for reparations for the injury inflicted on them to satisfy your philosophy that money isn't the appropriate means of compensating them.
What injury was inflicted? Oh yeah... they got their feelings hurt. They need cash now!
Scooter wrote:If a court could actually order such a thing, I would much prefer that she be ordered to work every flight for the next five years wearing a sign that says "I falsely accused a passenger of molesting his child", ............money will have to do.
How about a sign that says
'I made a mistake and erred on the side of caution'? Just because some idiots associate gay people with pedophiles, it doesn't mean that every time a gay person is suspected of doing something inappropriate they are being harassed. Maybe United Airlines should give all gay passengers compensation in advance just in case they get their feelings hurt.
Re: And if United Airlines hadn't self-inflicted enough woun
Posted: Fri May 26, 2017 11:52 pm
by Scooter
No, I don't automatically accept that the child's welfare was her concern. It could just as likely have been that she saw two men parenting a child and her revulsion at the concept, absent any sort of suspicious conduct on their part, led her to want to cause trouble for them.
"They got their feelings hurt" doesn't come CLOSE to the injury caused by being made the object of such a vile accusation IN PUBLIC.
Maybe United Airlines should teach their employees that doing the equivalent of yelling "HEY EVERYONE, LOOK, IT'S A CHILD MOLESTER" in public is not the way to react to their "suspicions". If she did have a legitimate concern, there were any number of ways that she could have handled the situation that did not involve publicly accusing the guy in front of a planeload of passengers.
Bottom line, she slandered the guy, and there is a price to be paid for that.
But I am sure that you would just laugh it off if someone walked back and forth in front of your house with a sign that said "Joe Guy molests his children." I am sure that if the police came and arrested you as a result, that you would continue to laugh it off. And I have no doubt that you would shake hands with your accuser and tell them that it's ok because they were "erring on the side of caution".
Re: And if United Airlines hadn't self-inflicted enough woun
Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 12:59 am
by Joe Guy
Scooter wrote:No, I don't automatically accept that the child's welfare was her concern. It could just as likely have been that she saw two men parenting a child and her revulsion at the concept, absent any sort of suspicious conduct on their part, led her to want to cause trouble for them.
Do we know that she knew the man is gay?
Scooter wrote:"They got their feelings hurt" doesn't come CLOSE to the injury caused by being made the object of such a vile accusation IN PUBLIC.
The article says the man was detained after disembarking the flight.
Scooter wrote:Maybe United Airlines should teach their employees that doing the equivalent of yelling "HEY EVERYONE, LOOK, IT'S A CHILD MOLESTER" in public is not the way to react to their "suspicions". If she did have a legitimate concern, there were any number of ways that she could have handled the situation that did not involve publicly accusing the guy in front of a planeload of passengers.
Is there something in the article I missed? Based on what I read the man was detained after leaving the plane and taken away from the group. There is no mention that everyone on the plane knew why he was detained. It is "alleged" by the man's husband that flight attendant said the guy's hand was too close to the baby's genitals. There is nothing about her screaming "Pedophile" out loud on the loudspeaker.
Scooter wrote:Bottom line, she slandered the guy, and there is a price to be paid for that.
Slander? Maybe if the husband didn't post this alleged experience on Facebook, nobody else would even be aware of what happened.
Scooter wrote:But I am sure that you would just laugh it off if someone walked back and forth in front of your house with a sign that said "Joe Guy molests his children." I am sure that if the police came and arrested you as a result, that you would continue to laugh it off. And I have no doubt that you would shake hands with your accuser and tell them that it's ok because they were "erring on the side of caution".
See above....
Re: And if United Airlines hadn't self-inflicted enough woun
Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 1:23 am
by Scooter
Once again, Joe is right and everyone else is wrong, the flight attendant should be given a medal and custody of this child, because only she has his interests at heart, and the dads who only adopted him so they could have a sex toy to play with should have their dick and balls cut off.