There is no hell

[Gob]

deep enough for these scum....

A woman who sold her son to paedophiles on the dark net for sex has been jailed for 12 years and six months by a court in southern Germany.

The Freiburg court also jailed her partner, the boy's stepfather, for 12 years. The boy was nine when the trial began in June.

Berrin T, 48, and Christian L, 39, are both German nationals, living in Staufen near Freiburg.

The dark net is an internet area beyond the reach of mainstream search engines.

On Monday the court jailed a Spanish man for 10 years for sexually abusing the boy repeatedly.

Five other men have also been prosecuted in connection with the abuse.

The couple were found guilty of rape, aggravated sexual assault of children, forced prostitution and distribution of child pornography


Continues...https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45096183

[Bicycle Bill]

Subject:
There is no hell deep enough or horrible enough to contain people such as these

Fixed it for you, Gob.

-"BB"-

[Big RR]

Sadly, this is not rare; in the three years I worked for the family court system (part time), I had two young girls (one 12, the other 14-15) who were being pimped out by their mother for rent money, and one who was forced into threeways with the mother and her boyfriend. There are a lot of sick people out there, and they're leaving kids who might well grow up to repeat the same things.

[Lord Jim]

A woman who sold her son to paedophiles on the dark net for sex has been jailed for 12 years and six months by a court in southern Germany.

The Freiburg court also jailed her partner, the boy's stepfather, for 12 years. The boy was nine when the trial began in June.


The couple were found guilty of rape, aggravated sexual assault of children, forced prostitution and distribution of child pornography

On Monday the court jailed a Spanish man for 10 years for sexually abusing the boy repeatedly.

I find these sentences absolutely disgraceful...

In the US at this point, sentences this light involving these kinds charges (especially regarding a child as young as this one) that became public knowledge would cause a huge public outcry and calls for the judge to be removed from the bench...

Is this typical of the sort of sentences that these types of scumbags receive for these types of crimes in EU courts?

These are the kinds of monstrous crimes where the starting point for a sentence ought to be 25 years...

[Big RR]

Jim--while I understand your post, it is not like the US longer sentences have prevented this sort of thing of from happening here or reduced the incidence of such crimes or even recidivism. I believe the courts in many western european counties take a more lenient approach to sentencing generally; we'd have to look at the incidence of such crimes to see which works "better", but, given our crime problems, it's not like our system is a paradigm for the world.

[MajGenl.Meade]

I had two young girls (one 12, the other 14-15) who were being pimped out by their mother for rent money

Unfortunate phrasing, RR...

[Big RR]

OK Meade, get your mind out of the gutter.

[BoSoxGal]

In my 20 years of victim advocacy, I saw some really horrible shit. The moment that broke me was when I worked a case that required me to review evidence of child rape - graphic photographs of a 3 or 4 year old ginger girl, the doppelgänger of my beloved niece, being penetrated by an adult man of much above average size. I have never gotten the images out of my head, and live with the knowledge of the physical and emotional ravages done to that baby and millions more like her.

I’m not one bit surprised to have lost a half dozen criminal law colleagues to suicide, and to know many, many more who exist in varying degrees of substance abuse disorder or clinical depression or both. Social workers and criminal lawyers deal with the most gruesome behaviors humans are capable of, and they deal with it day in and out, often for very little pay, with very little supports, and in the process gaining very little respect from all the so-called ‘normals’ in society. To do the work without experiencing profound vicarious trauma is all but impossible and leaves people very damaged and jaded about life.

What the actual victims endure is unimaginable.

[Big RR]

Yes, it is amazing what people will do to each other, and especially to children. I'd have to add police to your list; often they're the first people on the scene witnessing things most of us would like to pretend don't happen.

[Scooter]

It's cases like this that pushed me out of child welfare and led me to fall back on my accounting major. I probably would have ended up committed or would have swallowed a bottle of pills and a fifth of booze if I didn't get out. 20 years later I still sometimes have nightmares about some of those poor kids.

[Econoline]

it is not like the US longer sentences have prevented this sort of thing of from happening here or reduced the incidence of such crimes or even recidivism.

I'm pretty sure that if these particular criminals were in prison for 30-40 years it would have prevented their recidivism for at least 30-40 years, and hey, that's something...

[RayThom]

[BoSoxGal]

Yes, it is amazing what people will do to each other, and especially to children. I'd have to add police to your list; often they're the first people on the scene witnessing things most of us would like to pretend don't happen.

I agree; I have a lot of anger toward LEOs because of the (far too many) bad ones, but I am sympathetic about the vicarious trauma that they too suffer.

[Lord Jim]

it is not like the US longer sentences have prevented this sort of thing of from happening here or reduced the incidence of such crimes or even recidivism.

I'm pretty sure that if these particular criminals were in prison for 30-40 years it would have prevented their recidivism for at least 30-40 years, and hey, that's something...

Beat me to it Econo...

And before anyone says "yeah, but that would be true of any crime", two things to consider:

First this is obviously a particularly heinous crime, and second, child molesters have the worst rehabilitation rates (and highest re-offend rates) of any criminal group...

There's a reason why pedophiles are required to register with the local police even after their sentence has been served, while people convicted of stealing a car or forging a check aren't...

[Big RR]

Jim--you and econo could be right, but it does appear that, despite their more lenient sentencing, most (all?) western European countries have far lower crime rates and recidivism that we do. I have never looked into child molestation rates so I cannot say for certain that this reasoning would apply here, but I have not heard anything to the contrary either. I think we could learn something from their approach to crime and punishment--at least it's worth looking at because our strategy is not working.

And FWIW, many states do require registration of people convicted of felonies, not just child molesters.

BSG--I have my problem with many cops as well, but I do think that a good number of them are just people doing their jobs who suffer the same trauma other first responders and people involved in the system do. And I wouldn't doubt it pushes some over the edge Not an excuse, just an observation).

[Long Run]

western European countries have far lower crime rates and recidivism that we do

Why would you compare us to western Europe?

eta: this is in regards to the general crime rate discussion (not the case at hand from Germany with its shocking, to us, light sentence).

[Big RR]

All I am saying is that there are many western European countries which have much lower crime rates than we do and which have, to use your words "shocking, to us, light sentence". Now I do think these countries are fairly similar to us in a lot of ways, both culturally and economically, which is why I made the comparison; if you believe they are somehow so different that a valid comparison cannot be made, I would be happy to consider your reasons for that.

Basically, Jim raised it by commenting that the sentence was "absolutely disgraceful" and I questioned that as well. Econo stated that longer incarceration would prevent these people from repeating their crimes while they were in jail, which I guess no one can argue with. But if the goal of our criminal justice system is to deter crime, I think it is important to look at systems where it apparently works; clearly our lock 'em up for a long time strategy does not work as we have both a very high incarcerated population (with the attendant price tag) and a fairly high crime rate among developed countries.

[Long Run]

And my point is that with respect to most crime, the U.S. is very different than western Europe. We have all kinds of issues that they don't have to deal with. When there is an apples to apples comparison (i.e., similar demographics within each country), then the country by country crime rate merges. I have not seen anything about relative ranking of pedophilia, but it seems like it is a unique type of crime that will have different characteristics than other physical crimes and property crime.

[BoSoxGal]

There is no question whatsoever that the US sentencing and prison systems breed greater criminality and recidivism than in any other developed country; for all the urban legends about cushy prison amenities, most US state prisons are bleak places where despite legislative mandates of rehabilitation, the focus is on punitive measures (including the overuse of solitary confinement which perpetuates mental illness) and only a small fraction of resources go into meaningful efforts to prepare prisoners to reintegrate into society.

Most of them will rejoin the rest of us out here, and it should terrify folks to know what is being done in our name in this injustice system - not least of which is the stark reality that a great many folks in prison are ACTUALLY INNOCENT. Guilty convicts know this better than anybody else.

People point and snicker when they see the incredibly humane conditions of the prison system in Norway - but you can’t argue with the results. Do we have more complexities in our prison population? Sure, maybe - but that’s no excuse for perpetuating the evil broken system in place now. How is it that we wonder about the violence in our society, really? Look at how we fail to support children once they are born, and how we fail again to address their damage once they are in the criminal injustice system. We reap what we sow.

[Jarlaxle]

it is not like the US longer sentences have prevented this sort of thing of from happening here or reduced the incidence of such crimes or even recidivism.

I'm pretty sure that if these particular criminals were in prison for 30-40 years it would have prevented their recidivism for at least 30-40 years, and hey, that's something...

Beat me to it Econo...

And before anyone says "yeah, but that would be true of any crime", two things to consider:

First this is obviously a particularly heinous crime, and second, child molesters have the worst rehabilitation rates (and highest re-offend rates) of any criminal group...

There's a reason why pedophiles are required to register with the local police even after their sentence has been served, while people convicted of stealing a car or forging a check aren't...

Yes: hysteria. I worked with a sex offender. He was 20, he was drunk, and he took a whiz in some shrubbery.