Plan B Forum

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... llie-mccoy

Apparently a black rapper called Willie McCoy was sleeping in his car at a Taco Bell and was shot and killed by six police officers. It happened in Vallejo which is close to San Francisco.

I've seen it reported in the Guardian and The Independent; I ran a search on CNN and it didn't show up nor did I find it in NYT.

Either it didn't happen and the UK papers have got hold of some fake news; or we've become so inured to that sort of thing that it doesn't make the cut.

Yes the poor man was just sleeping in his car--with the engine running, slumped over the steering wheel, the car in the drive thru lane, and a gun visible on his lap. Nothing to be concerned about here.

So much more to the story and we do not have it.

snailgate

Burning Petard wrote:Yes the poor man was just sleeping in his car--with the engine running, slumped over the steering wheel, the car in the drive thru lane, and a gun visible on his lap. Nothing to be concerned about here.

So much more to the story and we do not have it.

snailgate

I understand that: it's possible that he had been taken ill or was drunk. Is that a death penalty crime in CA? I think it's possible to check up on and wake a sleeping man from behind the safety of a building or a vehicle in such a way as to minimize (not totally eliminate) any risk to the police. One has to wonder if he had been an older white male (Aamon Bundy springs to mind; or Stephen Paddock) would the outcome have been different? Yes of course I'll wait for the investigation, but my point was that I hadn't seen (maybe because I wasn't watching CNN when they covered it) any reporting on this.

The police routinely take into LIVE custody white gunmen who have fired upon them and even killed officers - yet somehow just by random coincidence they are justified by reasonable fear in shooting and killing dozens of black men and boys in a wide range of situations - including waking up from a sound sleep surrounded by drawn guns - all of which constitute justified use of deadly force.

Yeah. Right.

Back to the main story--the shooters involved used the magic words: I WAS SCARED !

Such a formula is acceptable in many circumstances of life. But I find it very problematic for individuals empowered by their fellow citizens to carry the means of ending a life on their hips. Cops should be held to a higher standard. Sometimes this higher standard is called 'professionalism' or 'I was just doing my job' . Why does the community go to such efforts to select people to serve in this job and give them expensive training, and then tell them it is ok to kill people if they are scared?

Similarly, I am concerned about the general doctrine among many police jurisdictions that it is appropriate to shoot an individual who is coming at them with a knife, if the perp is less than seven yards away. I am familiar with many forms of data showing the cop can be lethally hit with the blade in those circumstances faster than he can draw and stop the attack with the gun. Why not use a striking weapon, what once was called a night stick, then technically improved to the PR24, and now a telescoping version is on the hips of many cops, but they are poorly trained in its use?

well, I m of mixed feelings.

I always taught my kids that the police were the good guys.

I knew that it wasn t always true, but I taught them that, and I believed, and believe that they were basically good guys..., to a point.

the point has shifted.

bullies shouldn t be cops.

many of them do not honor their oaths to the constitution, or even seem to be aware that they are required to do that above all.

they cater to power, they think that they are the boss of us, and they are not, unless we commit a crime.

our town cops are ok, I think, but back in the day, they were pretty crooked....

the things that cops let go amaze me..... they let masked people shouting threats and being violent..., they let them walk away....

they let them jump on their cars, and our cars, and they let them walk away....

but if I dare to lip off a bit at some bogus traffic stop, they think that it is the end of the world....Anarchy!!!!!

yeah, we need to check the cops...., and I do....if I m right....

I screwed with a few game wardens this year myself...., I ll probably regret it.....

I gave them hell for sneaking thru the woods and spying on the guys down around the point.....

they weren t the normal guy who patrols my spot....

he is cool.....

he follows the rules, and let s you know if you aren t, but he isn t out for confrontation and establishing his power.

i told those other assholes that i was gonna be able to keep my next rockfish now that they were leaving.....

that got me a double take as they took the walk of shame.....

i knew that they had to go because they had dallied in the marsh, spying, for over an hour...

a guy and a chick....., i checked, and they weren t all disheveled like they d been doing the hanky, or i was gonna say something about that too



i m sure that they ran my tag......

assholes......

I agree we have to wait for the entire story, but from what I have read, it does seem like the cops saw him sleeping in his car with a gun in his lap. When they woke him and told him to put his hands up, his hands immediately went to his lap, which action the officers could have reasonably inferred was to grab his gun. However, in the case of a car with a sleeping person, I am surprised there could not be a better way to take him into custody rather than risk of the lives of the police officers or him; if they had time to get the backup, they should have had time to think it through better. But a show of force is all some police officers understand.

many of them do not honor their oaths to the constitution, or even seem to be aware that they are required to do that above all.

What a coincidence...

We have a President with exactly the same attitude...

geez, jim.....

I think that you need to step away from the news for a bit....

go to Tahoe...., relax.....

get trump off your mind for a bit.......

just stroll down the pleasant streets of your fair city and enjoys the sights and sounds of a thriving community.

inhale the essence......

better yet, go fishing......, have a pic-nic.....

let the sea wash over your soul.....

go somewhere warm, you can afford it....., just relax man, don t let trump shorten your days on this earth....

you are a blessing.

Everybody knows that the Taco Bell Drive-In lanes prohibit zonked out drivers. The young rapper should have found a Walmart* parking lot for his narcolepsy needs.

don t let trump shorten your days on this earth....

Oh, I have no intention of letting that happen wes...

It's just that anytime I see you asserting your supposed regard for the Constitution, I feel an overpowering urge to throw the bullshit flag...

BTW, when the weather allows I engage in plenty of outdoor activities...

That would not be now; things have been pretty soggy here abouts lately, and when not soggy, it's been cold and windy...

Yeah, it's SF Bay Area cold. Dipping down into the high 50s during the day...

The Outer Sunset in SF isn't like that tropical paradise you live in in Redwood City, Joe...

I'll have you know that most days for the past couple of weeks it's barely made it into of the low 50s, and with an icy breeze (which can have gusts as bad as 25 or even 30 MPH) coming off the ocean, it frequently feels like the mid 40s...

Hell, there have even been days when it's been so cold that I even felt like I should wear gloves when I went outside...

You Peninsula types are spoiled; up here we have it rough...

Yeah, I remember those glove things. When I was a kid living in San Francisco I almost had to wear them once. I apologize. I forgot how cold it almost gets there...

Lord Jim wrote:

don t let trump shorten your days on this earth....

Oh, I have no intention of letting that happen wes...

It's just that anytime I see you asserting your supposed regard for the Constitution, I feel an overpowering urge to throw the bullshit flag...

BTW, when the weather allows I engage in plenty of outdoor activities...

That would not be now; things have been pretty soggy here abouts lately, and when not soggy, it's been cold and windy...

You could always sail your sloop to Tahiti. A sloop is a small one masked sailboat, right.

liberty wrote:....A sloop is a small one masked sailboat, right.

I think you're referring to the Lone Slooper...



'Who was that masked sloop?'

'I don't know, but I never got the chance to thank him.'

lib can be a real dildo at times.

I think he probably 'maskerbates' a bit too much.

The police should have tried harder to find a less violent solution to the dilemma. Since he was passed out they had plenty of time to do so. They failed and it cost a life.

However, it was a very dangerous situation with a lot of uncertainties. Being passed out, he was either or both drugged or drunk. It is impossible to know what his state of mind would be when he is woken up although 'calm and intelligent utility maximizer" is not likely and "startled drunk with a gun in his hand" is not the first sentence of a novel which turns out with a happy ending for all.

One hears the police described as heroes so often but one sees so few examples of it. Just one time one night in America.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnQ0vZbABKA

yrs,
rubato