Is king Peggy an uncle tom?

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liberty
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Re: Is king Peggy an uncle tom?

Post by liberty »

Sue U wrote:I haven't read the book either, and I highly doubt that liberty has, but from what I could glean from the Amazon blurb, the author is a Ghanaian who immigrated to the U.S. in her 20s, became an American citizen in her 40s, and in her 50s moved back to her family's impoverished village in Ghana. I didn't see anything about slaves or their descendants being "lucky," and evidently neither she nor her ancestors were slaves (at least not in America).

Moreover, people "who’s [sic] ancestors were taken to Americas as slaves" are not "Africans," lucky or otherwise; they are Americans just like everyone else born here.

I'm confused by the whole OP. I mean, aside from the obvious expression of liberty's racism.
I was determined to find it and I did find it. I went back to the library and got the book and starting looking for the statement I had mentioned. I was starting to question it myself; I know how odd my memory can be. I started at the beginning of the book and it wasn’t there as I expected it to be, then I found it; it wasn’t at the beginning it was at the end. But the comment was very close to what I remembered. It is on page 285 the fourth and fifth paragraphs. It begins with those African captured and enslaved had been the unlucky ones …………
At the beginning of the fifth paragraph it reads: But by the second half of the twentieth century that was reversing……… And the last sentence reads: The descendants of the unlucky ones had become very lucky indeed.

So now you agree King Peggy is indeed a racist, an uncle tom and a race trader.
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

liberty
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Re: Is king Peggy an uncle tom?

Post by liberty »

Lord Jim wrote:Well, there's 15 minutes of my life I won't get back... :?
y
I just did a number of searches, both for King Peggy and Peggielene Bartels (her real name) I even used search phrases like "Peggielene Bartels said Africans lucky to be brought to America", and while I have found a number of articles about her, and her book, and a couple of interviews (her story certainly sounds like a fascinating one, and she seems like a very interesting person) I have found, zero, zip, nada, bupkis, and bugger all about her saying or writing (in her book or anywhere else) anything remotely related to "the lucky Africans are the ones alive today who’s ancestors were taken to Americas as slaves"...

Here's my guess...

Lib picked up this bit of "information" from some dodgy (probably alt-right and/or white nationalist) source that he decided he didn't want to share, (knowing that it wouldn't be accepted as legitimate) so he posted the (apparently false) claim made by the writer on that website, but then provided a link to the Amazon site for her book...
No that is not case. Here is copy for you: I was determined to find it and I did find it. I went back to the library and got the book and starting looking for the statement I had mentioned. I was starting to question it myself; I know how odd my memory can be. I start at the beginning of the book and it wasn’t there as I expected to be, then I found it; it wasn’t at the beginning it was at the end. But the comment was very close to what I remembered. It is on page 285 the fourth and fifth paragraphs. It begins with those African captured and enslaved had been the unlucky one …………
At the beginning of the fifth paragraph it reasds: But by the second half of the twentieth century that was reversing……… And the last sentence reads: The descendants of the unlucky ones had become very lucky indeed.

So now you agree King Peggy is indeed a racist, an uncle tom and a race trader.
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

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RayThom
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Re: Is king Peggy an uncle tom?

Post by RayThom »

liberty wrote:... I was determined to find it and I did find it. I went back to the library and got the book and starting looking for the statement I had mentioned. I was starting to question it myself; I know how odd my memory can be. I started at the beginning of the book and it wasn’t there as I expected it to be, then I found it; it wasn’t at the beginning it was at the end. But the comment was very close to what I remembered. It is on page 285 the fourth and fifth paragraphs. It begins with those African captured and enslaved had been the unlucky ones …………
At the beginning of the fifth paragraph it reads: But by the second half of the twentieth century that was reversing……… And the last sentence reads: The descendants of the unlucky ones had become very lucky indeed.

So now you agree King Peggy is indeed a racist, an uncle tom and a race trader.
Said liberty during another manic bipolar episode.

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Scooter
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Re: Is king Peggy an uncle tom?

Post by Scooter »

The Village Idiot wrote:King Peggy is ... a race trader.
So there is a trade in races? How does one go about trading one's race? Does one race fetch more than another, or is it always an even trade?
"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're on the menu."

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liberty
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Re: Is king Peggy an uncle tom?

Post by liberty »

RayThom wrote:
liberty wrote:... I was determined to find it and I did find it. I went back to the library and got the book and starting looking for the statement I had mentioned. I was starting to question it myself; I know how odd my memory can be. I started at the beginning of the book and it wasn’t there as I expected it to be, then I found it; it wasn’t at the beginning it was at the end. But the comment was very close to what I remembered. It is on page 285 the fourth and fifth paragraphs. It begins with those African captured and enslaved had been the unlucky ones …………
At the beginning of the fifth paragraph it reads: But by the second half of the twentieth century that was reversing……… And the last sentence reads: The descendants of the unlucky ones had become very lucky indeed.

So now you agree King Peggy is indeed a racist, an uncle tom and a race trader.
Said liberty during another manic bipolar episode.

Image
How is that relevant? You are avoiding the question. The question is: Is King Peggy an uncle tom? Is it racist to say something negative about black people?
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

Burning Petard
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Re: Is king Peggy an uncle tom?

Post by Burning Petard »

So I will answer the question--yes it is racist to say something negative about black people. It is racist to say something positive about black people. It is racist to think there is useful communication to say anything about black people, or white people. Is Peggy an uncle tom? No.

snailgate.

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Is king Peggy an uncle tom?

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Unless the db is leaving something out, we can compare his original claim vs. his new one:
King Peggy said in her book that the lucky Africans are the ones alive today who’s [sic] ancestors were taken to Americas [sic] as slaves.
It begins with "those African captured and enslaved had been the unlucky ones …………"
At the beginning of the fifth paragraph it reads: "But by the second half of the twentieth century that was reversing………" And the last sentence reads: "The descendants of the unlucky ones had become very lucky indeed."


Even a blind squirrel can see that the first statement is a total distortion of the second (actual) statement. This assumes that a blind squirrel, unlike db, can comprehend English, which isn't all that much a of a stretch.

What she wrote:
1. Africans taken into slavery were unlucky
2. Their descendents have turned out to be lucky compared to their slave forebears.

The db did not (at first) ask if King Peggy was racist. Rather, he asked if anyone agreed with him that her statement (the one he misrepresented) was evidence her being an Uncle Tom? On the ground of misrepresentation, no. On the ground of fact, no. The true question seems to me to be this: is the db an Uncle Ponzi?
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

Big RR
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Re: Is king Peggy an uncle tom?

Post by Big RR »

I agree; by comparison, assuming someone had a parent murdered and then used the life insurance for a good education (which later led to a good job and a comfortable life they might not otherwise have had), would it be correct to say they were "lucky" their parent was murdered (or even worse, the murderer did them a good deed and made their life better)? Pretty ridiculous.

rubato
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Re: Is king Peggy an uncle tom?

Post by rubato »

The material circumstances of a person alive today has no moral bearing on the treatment of his or her ancestors. That is just stupid.

yrs,
rubato

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Is king Peggy an uncle tom?

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

rubato wrote:The material circumstances of a person alive today has no moral bearing on the treatment of his or her ancestors. That is just stupid.

yrs,
rubato
Quite so. But since no one (not even db) made that claim, I'm suspecting you of moon-lighting as Tweet writer for the unmentionable one.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

liberty
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Re: Is king Peggy an uncle tom?

Post by liberty »

Big RR wrote:I agree; by comparison, assuming someone had a parent murdered and then used the life insurance for a good education (which later led to a good job and a comfortable life they might not otherwise have had), would it be correct to say they were "lucky" their parent was murdered (or even worse, the murderer did them a good deed and made their life better)? Pretty ridiculous.
They are not my words they belong to Peggy. Read the book; I gave you the page number and paragraph. You can get the book free from the library. You do visit the library don’t you?
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

Big RR
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Re: Is king Peggy an uncle tom?

Post by Big RR »

I guess I could if I had an interest in understanding what she did or did not say, but I really don't. You posted a paraphrased quote and asked a question, which began this thread, but I have no interest in the book nor in what the author, whom I do not know either personally or by reputation, meant by that recitiation. So no thanks, I won't read it.

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RayThom
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Is king Peggy an uncle tom?

Post by RayThom »

Big RR wrote:... I have no interest in the book nor in what the author, whom I do not know either personally or by reputation, meant by that recitiation. So no thanks, I won't read it.
You may want to reconsider, Good Reads gives it a 3.9 out of 5.

Maybe "page 285 the fourth and fifth paragraphs" is the denouement that ties the whole narrative together. You might be sorry you passed on this valuable literary nugget. For Christ's sake, it liberty recommended.
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Big RR
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Re: Is king Peggy an uncle tom?

Post by Big RR »

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I imagine, if I were like Burgess Meredith in the Twilight Zone after a nuclear disaster, I might get around to it eventually, unless my glasses break.

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Re: Is king Peggy an uncle tom?

Post by BoSoxGal »

Big RR wrote::lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I imagine, if I were like Burgess Meredith in the Twilight Zone after a nuclear disaster, I might get around to it eventually, unless my glasses break.
Still my all-time favorite - and one of the creepiest - TZ episode! Has long served as an admonition to always have a spare pair of glasses. :mrgreen:
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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Big RR
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Re: Is king Peggy an uncle tom?

Post by Big RR »

I agree.

liberty
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Re: Is king Peggy an uncle tom?

Post by liberty »

Big RR wrote:I guess I could if I had an interest in understanding what she did or did not say, but I really don't. You posted a paraphrased quote and asked a question, which began this thread, but I have no interest in the book nor in what the author, whom I do not know either personally or by reputation, meant by that recitiation. So no thanks, I won't read it.
I don’t know that I recommended reading the whole thing just one page, but it is a good read. It is an interesting story and I suspect that it is mostly true and she seems like the kind of person I would like. I like and admire people with grit and determination.
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

liberty
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Re: Is king Peggy an uncle tom?

Post by liberty »

She said (wrote) other racist things in the book King Peggy by Peggielene Bartels and Eleanor Herman. She mentioned that wife beating is common all other Africa. And that fathers and husbands routinely abandon families leaving them to fend for themselves while they establish and support other families. And that thievery and corruption are rampant at all levels of society. She could get away with this racism, but if a person with the wrong skin, noise, hair and ancestry said these things they would be a racist. It won’t be long before an accusation of racism is an acceptable reason for killing the accused..
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: Is king Peggy an uncle tom?

Post by BoSoxGal »

Wife beating is common all over - check.
Fathers and husbands routinely abandon families leaving them to fend for themselves while they establish and support other families - check.
Thievery and corruption are rampant at all levels of society - check.

Sounds like she’s talking about the United States of America, where she also resides. Those ugly things have no racial correlation - they have a correlation to human nature, period.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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