The Elephant in the Room

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BoSoxGal
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The Elephant in the Room

Post by BoSoxGal »

I would like to have a conversation about this, but only with participants willing to do the homework of watching the video. It’s a bit dated but all the math still holds, even in light of discoveries of shale oil, etc. since it was made.

Obviously some folks here are likely already entirely familiar with peak oil and overpopulation maths - just asking that everyone participating get to the same basic level of understanding by watching Professor Bartlett’s lecture before diving in.



So my basic question is: how are we not facing impending awfulness regardless of AGW/CC?
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

ex-khobar Andy
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Re: The Elephant in the Room

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Around 60 years ago, CP Snow published an essay on the two cultures, essentially the sciences and the arts/humanities. He noted that at a dinner party in London (?) (it's probably 50 years since I read some of his stuff) he found that the majority of those attending - people usually regarded as educated and what we might nowadays call 'woke' - would sneer at scientists on the grounds that some were ill read: probably unable to describe the basic plot of Hamlet or Twelfth Night. Provoked, Snow would ask some of these people what they thought about the Second Law of Thermodynamics. (That is sometimes, shorthandedly, cited as 'You can't unscramble an egg.") For a scientist, such a concept (entropy) was about as basic as Shakespeare for an Arts major. Further, and equally bewildering to many humanities types, the concepts of mass and acceleration were about as basic as the ability to read.

This was despite the fact that science had won the very recent war. Bouncing bombs (Dambusters raid on the Ruhr Valley), atom bombs, more manoeuverable aircraft etc. etc. and yet science education was very much an ugly stepsister to an arts education. Margaret Thatcher (for all her faults and they were many, many, many) was the last trained scientist to be UK PM. Jimmy Carter was I think the last scientist President.

I watched the video. I agree with Prof Bartlett's opening premise, that the inability to understand exponential growth is the biggest and most deadly gap in most people's education. I'd add the basic understanding of risk.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: The Elephant in the Room

Post by BoSoxGal »

I just watched Blind Spot, a documentary on the same subjects and including an interview with Bartlett.

Interestingly, it discusses how President Carter attempted to educate the American public on energy issues and to encourage us to change our habits and expectations (I remember his Oval Office talk about wearing sweaters and turning the thermostat down) and how Howard Baker responded by decrying those ideas and exalting the American way forward as producing ourselves out of the energy crisis/oil shortage and promoting increased consumption. Reagan - the farthest thing from a scientist- took that path, tore the solar panels off the roof of the WH, and here we are.

President Carter won’t be with us much longer. When he dies, I hope in the remembrances people don’t forget to acknowledge that he tried to save us from the biggest threat facing us as a country - and as a species.

The documentary is worth watching: https://vimeo.com/58135269
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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