Another COVID-19 Thread

[liberty]

you really think we will be in a better state if we have a large portion of humanity die off? (that portion BTW is one you are in fact are a prime candidate for?)

Did I say that; I thought I was just stating a fact? This situation could cause a depression. If things got bad enough it could lead to civil unrest even war. We are already a nation with a big hate problem left and right. It wouldn’t take much to push the country over the edge. True that is just my opinion; no one can predict the future.

[Sue U]

you really think we will be in a better state if we have a large portion of humanity die off? (that portion BTW is one you are in fact are a prime candidate for?)

Don't make me think bad thoughts.

[datsunaholic]

He has a point. Looking at all the graphs and data on "flattening the curve" prolongs the pandemic. There is simply no way to keep everyone sheltering in place for the 18-24 months it would take to have a working, universally available vaccine. The virus will likely have run its course long before a vaccine is ready.

Of course, flattening the curve means less people die, especially in non COVID-19 cases since the health care system will be quickly overwhelmed in a sharp spike.

It's a choice between 2 bad things- tank the economy for 6 months or more, pushing the world into another great depression that kills millions from poverty, or let the virus do the work instead in 3 months.

I question how effective sheltering in place really will be. Because there are so many "key" jobs that have to be done. People still have to be able to get food and medicine, which means grocery stores and pharmacies have to stay open. That means food production workers have to keep working, truck drivers have to keep driving, which means you can't just shut down the roads. Since key people have to still get to work then gas stations have to stay open. Public transit has to run for those people that can't or don't drive. Emergency workers have to keep working- police, firefighters, doctors, etc. What about people that are stuck away from home, in hotels? Can't just shut them down so hotel employees have to keep working. It's all intertwined.

My fear is that since people aren't taking the voluntary stay home requests seriously, that martial law will be declared to try to enforce it. Maybe then the number of new cases would start to decline, but as soon as it's lifted, a second wave will hit. I guess we shall see with China, as they seem to be the first to "peak".

Of course, I am one of the ones who still has to go to work. My company has those that can work from home, but I'm a field tech. We still have customers living in our units, many of whom are sheltering themselves. So our field techs, warehouse workers, cleaners, and laundry still has to keep running 24/7. I suppose I could quit and see how long my cache of canned chili and top ramen lasts. It took me 5 years to land THIS job, in an improving economy. Being out of work that long put me in a depression that I still have not (and likely never will) fully recovered from. Not so sure I'd survive another round of that.

Oh, and one of my friends just reported that he has come down with it, from a camping trip in Canada 2 weeks ago. Every single person on that trip got it.

[Crackpot]

Flattening the curve has noting to do with vaccine development but rather slowing the rate of transmission keeping the amount of those infected small enough that the services available to treat the sick don’t get overwhelmed and cause far more deaths that could otherwise been prevented. That is all shown in the flattening the curve graphic the number under the curve does not get decreased (though that will likely be an immeasurable side effect) it just spreads the effected among a much larger area.

[Econoline]

[Lord Jim]

It occurs to me that there's one group that must be pretty happy about this whole stay at home thing...

America's doggies, who must be delighted to have the human members of their pack not going off to work or school, and instead hanging out with them all day...

[Guinevere]

Not just it’s doggies. My cat is never happier than when I’m at home with him.

[Econoline]

When do you think Trump should have taken action?

• When he said the virus was “one person coming in from China, and we have it under control“ he should have shut his mouth;
• when he said “We pretty much shut it down coming in from China” he should have shut his mouth;
• when he said the virus had been “contained” he should have shut his mouth;
• when he said testing is available to anybody who wants it he should have shut his mouth;
• when he said people should go to work if they’re sick he should have shut his mouth;
• when he said “by April, when it gets a little warmer, it miraculously goes away” he should have shut his mouth;
• when he blamed an Obama administration regulation for slowing the production of test kits he should have shut his mouth;
• when he said that “the Democrat policy of open borders” had brought the virus into the country he should have shut his mouth;
• when he said a vaccine would be available “very quickly” and “very rapidly” and praised his administration’s actions as “the most aggressive taken by any country” he should have shut his mouth;
• when he said on multiple occasions that the virus was less serious than the flu he should have shut his mouth.
• etc.

Could you be a little more specific?....

OK, to be VERY specific...

When do you think Trump should have taken action?

-->January 27<--

The U.S. and South Korea both confirmed their first cases of COVID-19 on Jan. 21.

On Jan. 27, with four confirmed cases in the country, "South Korean health officials summoned representatives from more than 20 medical companies from their lunar New Year celebrations to a conference room tucked inside Seoul's busy train station," where a top infectious disease official "delivered an urgent message: South Korea needed an effective test immediately to detect the novel coronavirus," Reuters reports. "He promised the companies swift regulatory approval." A week later, South Korea's Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) approved one company's diagnostic test and gave the green light to another company's test on Feb. 12. (link)

[Burning Petard]

I just stepped away from my tv, as POTUS made another live news conference. I full agree with the Madox post above.

Why does testing seem to have such a high priority? The people to be tested all have symptoms. The symptoms need to be treated. IF THEY TEST POSITIVE, the treatment remains exactly the same. There is no other treatment for this disease. If they test positive, they have already been contagious and spreading the disease for many days. Why have so many political authorities imposed travel restrictions?---because real quarantine is the only thing that works to stop this pandemic.

snailgate

[MajGenl.Meade]

[MajGenl.Meade]

Why does testing seem to have such a high priority? The people to be tested all have symptoms. The symptoms need to be treated. IF THEY TEST POSITIVE, the treatment remains exactly the same. There is no other treatment for this disease. If they test positive, they have already been contagious and spreading the disease for many days.

I think (dubious statement) it just might be to find out whether symptomatic people have Coronavirus or a common fold/'flu. Could be wrong of course. The treatment does not remain "exactly the same". If a person has 'flu, a cold, attack of the sneezles, they can go home and rub Vicks on their chest. They are not sent to ICU.

If Covid19 is detected, that person (depending upon various factors) MAY be sent home to self-isolate until/unless their symptoms worsen. Or that person may be slapped into ICU and add to the burden of an already breaking system. Further, if a test is positive, the authorities can immediately test the family (and associates if need be) to see if THEY should be at home, isolated, or in hospital.

Of course, strict at-home quarantine is the only guaranteed "stopper"; all those who got it will die and those who don't won't. That's provided quarantine is followed 100% and it cannot be. People need food, people need daily meds - they have to go out and into contact with others. Doctors and nurses can't stay home; cops and fire fighters can't stay home; essential business workers can't stay home; food store workers can't stay home.

Testing is so important.

[Gob]

Dr. Anthony Fauci has admitted that he has to tell President Trump facts four times to get his point across and that he will 'keep pushing' to correct any inaccuracies about the coronavirus that are relayed by the White House.

The director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases said in an interview with Science that 'when you're dealing with the White House, sometimes you have to say things 1,2,3,4 times, and then it happens. So I'm going to keep pushing.'

He said that he tries to correct Trump but he 'can't jump in front of the microphone and push him down.'

He criticized the president for publicly shaking hands with people, saying: 'I say that to the task force. I say that to the staff. We should not be doing that.'

'Not only that - we should be physically separating a bit more on those press conferences.'

The top immunologist said that he was pushing for the White House to adopt virtual press conferences to avoid briefings crowded with experts, politicians and journalists - contradicting official advice to not to gather in groups of above ten people.

He said that he would never call refer to COVID-19 as the 'Chinese virus' as Trump has done - which critics have condemned as racist.

His remarks, the latest in a string of public rebukes against the president, combined with his absence from Sunday's White House press briefing on the coronavirus have fueled speculation of tension between the two men.

The doctor discussed the president's claim that China should have warned the US two or three months before they publicly announced the sequence of the development of coronavirus.

'The way it happened is that after he made that statement [suggesting China could have revealed the discovery of a new coronavirus three to four months earlier], I told the appropriate people, it doesn't comport, because two or three months earlier would have been September,' he said.

[Burning Petard]

If one had the flu--a year ago perhaps--the treatment was? Control the symptoms, and hope the body can fight the infection. Same with Covid19. The most common symptoms of flu include runny nose and sneezing--not seen with covid19.

Gen'l Mead, this is not 1862. under extreme quarantine "all those who got it will die" is not true. The test for covi19 goes for acontact sample from the upper respiratory tract. It is not a test for antibodies, which might produce a positive test while in the early contagion state.

snailgate

[MajGenl.Meade]

Yes, I didn't put one part of that very well. I meant that if everyone goes into strict quarantine (and doesn't bother with all this testing crap), those families that have/get CV19 (which as you pointed out they may already be walking around with) will either die off or get better. Tough titty on the dogs and cats but they can always eat what's left. You're quite right that it would be effective if only we can persuade doctors and nurses to stop medicalizing, policemen to stop patterolling, sewage workers to stop suing, and so forth. Provided all those people stop what they are doing and stay at home (that's all of us), the thing stops eventually.

Why test, you ask? It's to find out who's got the damn thing so they can take whatever steps are needed including warning their nearest and dearest, writing a will or stocking up on G&T.

Not all cold and 'flu symptoms present the same way. Nor do all CV19 infections. "IF THEY TEST POSITIVE, the treatment remains exactly the same" is plainly not what's happening. People with colds and 'flu are allowed to wander off. People with CV19 infection must either (in few cases) self-quarantine or be placed in ICU (depending upon their condition etc.). I've not heard of people with colds being put in ICU just for having a cold.

ETA and in Italy, the medical chaps and chappettes are longing for CV19 folks to stay home and die quietly instead of bunging up all the needed emergency beds, services and so on.

[Big RR]

If one had the flu--a year ago perhaps--the treatment was? Control the symptoms, and hope the body can fight the infection. Same with Covid19. The most common symptoms of flu include runny nose and sneezing--not seen with covid19.

Not entirely BP, we did have some antivirals (such as Tamiflu) which could also be used to fight the flu--something not useful against a coronavirus like this (I think these are generally used against retroviruses). And the vaccines, to the extent they worked, boosted herd immunity, lessening the spread.

However, you are correct, ordinary flu even kills tens of thousamnds of people a year, and its death toll in the US dwarfs what we have seen for Covid 19.

[TPFKA@W]

I just found out the 2 year old step grand daughter likely has it. She is up at Riley now running a high fever. Awaiting judgment on that, the rest of the household is on quarantine.

[Gob]

Hope she gets well soon! Poor little bugger.

[Lord Jim]

Gezz @W, very sorry to hear that. Hopefully given her young age, she'll have a speedy recovery. All my best wishes and prayers for her and her family.

[Big RR]

I agree, and wish her a speedy recovery as well. As for high fevers, I recall from my kids that, when they were young, they could spike very high fevers (much higher than most adults would tolerate) and then and then recover quickly--I wish her the same.

[MajGenl.Meade]

The young are resilient but it's sad when little ones have to go through this stuff. I'm sure the best treatment and care will soon have her bouncing back.