Plan B Forum

Do we panic and go with the fearmongering or do we not panic? The Atlantic has a good article on models. I'll now return you to your regular programming.



https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/ ... ht/609271/

As of today the us has almost a full quarter of the worlds total Coronavirus cases and well over a quarter of the active cases. Everything according to plan right?

Great news for heart attack victims in New York City! You'll no longer have to languish in the hospital emergency room!

Grim New Rules for NYC Paramedics: Don’t Bring Cardiac Arrests to ER for Revival

As the coronavirus stretches New York City emergency rooms and paramedics to their limits, a regional EMT group has issued new guidelines almost unthinkable even days ago -- if someone's in cardiac arrest and you can't revive them in the field, don't bring them to the emergency room.

The newly implemented order that takes effect Thursday was implemented in an effort to control the surge of patients in hospitals due to the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic.

The guidance from the Regional Emergency Medical Services Council of New York City applies to the city as well as Nassau and Suffolk counties. The group, known as REMSCO, is the state-designated coordinating authority for the region.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronav ... l/2356265/

Lord Jim wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:09 pm

if someone's in cardiac arrest and you can't revive them in the field, don't bring them to the emergency room.

Presumably because they are dead

MajGenl.Meade wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:18 pm

Lord Jim wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:09 pm

if someone's in cardiac arrest and you can't revive them in the field, don't bring them to the emergency room.

Presumably because they are dead

You can do CPR on the way but the odds of survival are bad.

Hmmm, but I took "can't revive" to mean they be dead. And after they is dead, leave 'em there

MajGenl.Meade wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:24 pm

Hmmm, but I took "can't revive" to mean they be dead. And after they is dead, leave 'em there

I thought the EMTs had to keep up the pretense of resuscitation on a dead person at least until a licensed medical doctor officially calls the TOD.

People have many times been revived and lived after having a stopped heart for a few minutes (especially with the assistance of CPR during that period) with the equipment and resources available at a hospital that were superior to what was available in the ambulance.

At this point all “extraordinary measures” are being questioned in this time of limited hospital space

"A few minutes"

"In cardiac arrest...." the heart has stopped. The ambulance people do their best for a few minutes. Still dead. Don't bring the body here through ten minutes of traffic (or 20 or 25).

Seems clear to me.

Crackpot wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:46 pm

At this point all “extraordinary measures” are being questioned in this time of limited hospital space

Exactly, like it or not, you have to marshall your available resources to their 'Best" (or "better") uses. Of course, republicans don't like that because it reeks of death panels.

I thought the EMTs had to keep up the pretense of resuscitation on a dead person at least until a licensed medical doctor officially calls the TOD.

I don't know about NYC, but in my area the paramedics come to most cardiac incidents and often have a physician on board (usually a resident); even if they do not they are in contact with the hospital and telemetry can send all necessary data to the hospital for the physicians to review.

Don't bring the body here through ten minutes of traffic (or 20 or 25).

And proceed to the next emergency where (hopefully) your skills can be put to better use.

Hell, it's all Obama's (and his Obamacare's) fault.

By now, it appears that every country on the planet is going to eventually have to cope with the coronavirus and COVID-19.
But China got to deal with it right off the bat.

-"BB"-

Worked for that Lazarus chap...

BB

Lord Jim wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:38 pm

People have many times been revived and lived after having a stopped heart for a few minutes (especially with the assistance of CPR during that period) with the equipment and resources available at a hospital that were superior to what was available in the ambulance.

This happened to my Aunt Nancy just over 4 years ago; she went into cardiac arrest getting into my cousin's car in the driveway to go to Urgent Care because she'd been feeling really lousy for days and my cousin had finally convinced her to get checked out. My cousin, an LPN, started CPR while EMTs were on the way; when they arrived, they continued CPR while transporting my Aunt to the nearest high level ER, about 15 minutes away by ambulance in Brockton. Using the better stuff available at the hospital, the doctors and nurses in the ER were able to get her back - but she had suffered massive brain damage from her time off-line. They intubated her and put her on a vent and sent her through some scans to check on brain activity and in this process they found that her body was riddled with lung cancer that had metastasized to her brain, so she was terminally ill even if she'd been revived. My cousin waited for me to arrive from Maine and in the wee hours of the following day, she was removed from life support and we sat quietly by her bedside holding her hands while her body struggled to breath on its own and then after about 45 minutes she passed away.

A lot of people don't realize, because they are lulled into delusion by the depictions of CPR on TV shows and in movies, that the vast majority of resuscitations out of hospital are entirely unsuccessful. Of those that are successful, a large majority result in some level of brain damage and loss of function up to and including persistent vegetative state. Even among the higher percentage of successful resuscitations that occur in hospital (about 20% success rate in-hospital), fewer than 10% are discharged in anything like a healthy condition - the vast majority require some form of higher level care for the remainder of their lives.

Most of the clients I've worked with - including younger clients - have put DNR orders in place upon proper education by their physicians of the actual outcomes most likely from a resuscitative event.

https://www.medscape.com/answers/134408 ... tation-cpr

More good news.

""We are happy to announce we have completed the engineering and we have some very potent antibodies that can be effective against the virus," said Dr. Glanville.

On Wednesday, during the daily White House Coronavirus Task Force briefing, Dr. Fauci was asked about Dr. Jacob Glanville’s work with antibodies, and said he supports the concept of monoclonal antibodies.

Dr. Fauci said the science is well established."

Below is News 8 reporter Kelly Hessedal's extended interview

https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/healt ... d49d20bebf