Day 9 in the countdown to an end to the COVID-19 panic.

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Scooter
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Re: Day 9 in the countdown to an end to the COVID-19 panic.

Post by Scooter »

So people should be self-medicating with veterinary drugs, that's Darren's idea of "good news".
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Darren
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Re: Day 9 in the countdown to an end to the COVID-19 panic.

Post by Darren »

Scooter wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:41 pm
So people should be self-medicating with veterinary drugs, that's Darren's idea of "good news".
If ask me nice, I'll run it past Doc.

As part of her vet training back in the day she studied pharmaceutical compounding. Often vet drugs are the same as the ones for humans, Don't tell anyone I told you that.
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Lord Jim
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Re: Day 9 in the countdown to an end to the COVID-19 panic.

Post by Lord Jim »

So people should be self-medicating with veterinary drugs, that's Darren's idea of "good news".
Often vet drugs are the same as the ones for humans
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Crackpot
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Re: Day 9 in the countdown to an end to the COVID-19 panic.

Post by Crackpot »

In other great news one out of every 3 active Coronavirus cases are in the USA!

We’re killing it
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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Scooter
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Re: Day 9 in the countdown to an end to the COVID-19 panic.

Post by Scooter »

Darren wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:50 pm
Scooter wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:41 pm
So people should be self-medicating with veterinary drugs, that's Darren's idea of "good news".
If ask me nice, I'll run it past Doc.

As part of her vet training back in the day she studied pharmaceutical compounding. Often vet drugs are the same as the ones for humans, Don't tell anyone I told you that.
How about we start with some actual evidence of effectiveness? Speculating that a drug "might work" based on its mechanism of action, without having demonstrated any actual effect on the virus itself, is nothing but more spaghetti being thrown at the wall.

And IF there is ever any evidence that it works, suggesting that folks just head on over to their local feed store to pick some up, is moronic even by the low bar you've set.
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Re: Day 9 in the countdown to an end to the COVID-19 panic.

Post by Darren »

"Americans may soon be able to learn if they've ever been infected with COVID-19 with a prick of their finger and a smartphone — and without having to leave their homes.

A Los Angeles digital healthcare company called Scanwell Health is seeking U.S. government clearance for a kit that lets users submit a scanned image of a blood test to doctors via their phones. Within a few hours, according to the company, the user will learn whether the blood contains antibodies for coronavirus.

"The entire testing process happens at home," says Scanwell Chief Medical Officer Jack Jeng, "No specimen has to be shipped back."

A positive test result means a patient has been exposed to COVID-19 at some point in the past and has developed antibodies to fight it.

"The Scanwell rapid serology test is looking for antibodies in the blood. A positive test result means that you were exposed to the virus previously because it takes time for the antibodies to develop," said Jeng."

"New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo is banking on antibody tests to identify individuals who've developed immunity to help restart the economy, "That would be very important for us to know because then healthcare workers that could go back to work," said Cuomo, "there are workers that could return back to the private sector.""

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-n ... s-n1176086
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Re: Day 9 in the countdown to an end to the COVID-19 panic.

Post by Darren »

Testing ongoing to determine extent of Covid-19 exposure.

"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has begun preliminary studies to try to determine how many Americans have already been infected with SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, an agency official revealed Saturday. On Friday, the agency said nearly 240,000 people in the country have been infected with the virus and nearly 5,500 have died.

Joe Bresee, deputy incident manager for the CDC’s pandemic response, said the agency hopes to flesh out the portion of cases that have evaded detection using three related studies.

The first, which has already begun, will be looking at blood samples from people never diagnosed as a case in some of the nation’s Covid-19 hot spots, to see how widely the virus circulated."

https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/04/cdc ... -19-cases/
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Re: Day 9 in the countdown to an end to the COVID-19 panic.

Post by Scooter »

Try using some up-to-date numbers:

Over 310,000 U.S. cases to date, over 8,400 deaths.

Over 33,000 new infections and over 1,000 deaths today.
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Re: Day 9 in the countdown to an end to the COVID-19 panic.

Post by Lord Jim »

Yay!

A second day in a row where the total deaths didn't exceed 2000! More lives saved by Trump!
April 4 (GMT)

33125 new cases and 1048 new deaths in the United States
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
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Re: Day 9 in the countdown to an end to the COVID-19 panic.

Post by BoSoxGal »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/en.as.com/ ... 2.amp.html

It appears to work very well in cell cultures, but needs to be trialed in humans. Ivermectin is already used to treat a number of conditions in humans and is relatively safe; it’s also safe for use in most dogs but some have a gene expression that makes ivermectin lethal to them (white feet, don’t treat - I’m sure Darren’s GF knows that Veterinary admonition).

People should never self medicate with pharmaceuticals without proper medical guidance, especially if they have any health conditions or already take other pharmaceuticals.
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Scooter
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Re: Day 9 in the countdown to an end to the COVID-19 panic.

Post by Scooter »

I thought I had captured the final numbers for the day but didn't wait long enough before checking. Over 34,000 new cases and over 1,300 deaths.
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Re: Day 9 in the countdown to an end to the COVID-19 panic.

Post by Bicycle Bill »

Scooter wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:41 am
I thought I had captured the final numbers for the day but didn't wait long enough before checking. Over 34,000 new cases and over 1,300 deaths.
And all of those caused by that nasty ol' virus?   :roll:

These numbers need to be taken with a grain of salt.

You seen these sort of articles all over the internet over the past couple of weeks:  'Flash' actor co-star dies suddenly, or some other minor C-list celebrity or Hollywood technician dies; and of course it is assumed that it is the virus — although it is usually stated as "due to complication from the coronavirus", which could cover a lot of things.  Unless the authorities pull a badly-charred corpse from the rubble of a house fire, drag their drowned bodies out of Chesapeake Bay, or the deceased has more bullet holes in them than Bonnie and Clyde, it appears that nobody is dying these days of anything but the coronavirus.
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Re: Day 9 in the countdown to an end to the COVID-19 panic.

Post by BoSoxGal »

I didn’t think I could ever think less of you BB, but you’ve just reached a new high of idiocy and a new low of esteem.

I’m going to choose to consider with generosity in my heart that you are simply terrified by the horrific reality of this pandemic and your own high odds of not surviving should you fall ill, and this incredibly stupid tin foil hat bravado is the only defense mechanism you possess to cope with that fear.
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Re: Day 9 in the countdown to an end to the COVID-19 panic.

Post by Joe Guy »

Bicycle Bill wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:34 am
.......— although it is usually stated as "due to complication from the coronavirus", which could cover a lot of things......
When a bullet is shot into someone's body and the person dies, is it not from complications caused by the bullet... :?

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Re: Day 9 in the countdown to an end to the COVID-19 panic.

Post by Lord Jim »

These numbers need to be taken with a grain of salt.
Bill, if you have credible evidence to present that suggests that there is some sort of fakery going on regarding people dying from conditions brought on by Covid-19, by all means please present it...

Or are you just engaging in lib-type paranoid fantasizing, and talking out your tin foil hat?
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Re: Day 9 in the countdown to an end to the COVID-19 panic.

Post by Bicycle Bill »

BoSoxGal wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:41 am
I’m going to choose to consider with generosity in my heart that you are simply terrified by the horrific reality of this pandemic and your own high odds of not surviving should you fall ill, and this incredibly stupid tin foil hat bravado is the only defense mechanism you possess to cope with that fear.
Maybe it is false bravado, or maybe it's just the acknowledgment and acceptance of my own mortality.

I don't know how old you are, but I turned 65 last November.  I don't know how many years I've got left — hell, for that matter, no one does.  But I do know this:

My dad, who didn't drink much; smoked up until he was maybe in his late 40s and then decided one day that enough was enough and quit, cold-turkey; kept himself in good shape — he used to be an athlete, won a letter in his college days for gymnastics, and even in his mid-50s was still capable of doing handstands, flips, and cartwheels to demonstrate to my sister (who also took up gymnastics in high school) how to do them properly; was always as strong as an ox and even survived quad-bypass surgery and a car crash where he and my mother went underneath a semi-truck and out the other side, only made it to 77.  By that standard I've maybe got ten-twelve years left.

My mother, on the other hand, made it to 89; but I was her caregiver as she began to go downhill, slowly at first but then with staggering speed over the last 12-15 years of her life as macular degeneration robbed her of her sight; her coordination, balance, and stamina became almost non-existent; and dementia came on until she was pretty much confined to a wheelchair or a power-lift chair and living in and out of various forms of 'assisted care' facilities over the final year or two of her life.  Please believe me when I say that it was no way to live, and it was then, as I began to wonder if I was viewing the 'coming attractions' of my own life, that I first began to seriously consider the inevitability of death and my own mortality.

And as many of you know, I am still single; have never really been in any situation that could realistically be called a 'relationship' (and am not, at my age, ever likely to be); and my only close remaining relative is my sister who lives 60 - 70 miles away.  However, she has a family and issues of her own, and we have gradually gone our own ways to the point that it has been something like two years since we've last seen, spoken, or communicated with each other.  So when my time DOES come — and unless I drop dead at work or while driving my car — I will probably die alone and become the subject of one of those news stories about the body found dead in bed that no one missed or noticed until the stench became unbearable.

Now I'm not going to say Dr. Kevorkian was right and we should be able to euthanize ourselves if we so desire, so you don't have to worry about me putting up a post here someday saying that I was swallowing a bunch of pills or putting a pistol to my head.  Life so far is fairly good, I can't complain (frankly there's no one to complain to anyway), and there are still some things I'd like to do or see while I'm still on this side of the sod.  But much like Harry Potter in the ante-climactic scene in the "Deathly Hallows" movie, I have accepted my mortality and am ready to die.  And if it's going to be the coronavirus that take me, well then, so be it.

So maybe that mindset tends to tint some of my outlook on things.

My only hope is that when my time finally does come, I may be able to face it as did Sir Terry Pratchett, as described in his Twitter feed:
(Death spoke)  AT LAST, SIR TERRY, WE MUST WALK TOGETHER.
Terry took Death's arm and followed him through the doors and on to the black desert under the endless night.
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Re: Day 9 in the countdown to an end to the COVID-19 panic.

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

These numbers need to be taken with a grain of salt.
He's correct in that they are more likely to be understated.

In the UK, for example, daily death data is recorded when reported at Grim-Count Central. But many reports take a day or a bit more to come in whereupon UK retro-corrects - always higher than the initial number. France has been counting only people who died in hospital and not counting others such as deaths in nursing homes. Johns Hopkins put a note about that on the Worldometer while doing their own addition; France is now (I guess) capturing all the data. China - well, we know about China; serial undercounters, them.

As to the other silly statement:
This year's flu season has recorded an average of 383 deaths per day, CDC figures show.
Imagine! They are differentiating between CV19 and common 'flu! Ugh, CDC smarter than President (but then so is my stapler)
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Re: Day 9 in the countdown to an end to the COVID-19 panic.

Post by TPFKA@W »

My only hope is that when my time finally does come, I may be able to face it as did Sir Terry Pratchett, as described in his Twitter feed:

(Death spoke) AT LAST, SIR TERRY, WE MUST WALK TOGETHER.
Terry took Death's arm and followed him through the doors and on to the black desert under the endless night.
I recall the first time I stood and watched a patient take her last. Her family had crowded in the room around her and I was checking her for respiration and pulse. I was a newly minted nurse and nervous as heck. That lady took forever to breathe her last, she was down to about 4 bpm for HR and the same for respiration. After each breath the family stared expectantly at me waiting to say it was her last. This went on for a bit. Finally she let go. It was really a very quiet death. Over the years I witnessed a number more deaths. Most of them are not quiet towards the end, more like a fish fighting when hooked. I wish that we all could face it the way Sir Terry did, but I am not optimistic, human instinct to live is strong, thus the struggle.

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Re: Day 9 in the countdown to an end to the COVID-19 panic.

Post by BoSoxGal »

BB you don’t have to preach to me about what the long slow decline of the elder years looks like in many people - that’s what I see every single day of my life, as it is my current profession to care for mostly elderly folks. There are some elders who are very spry and mentally sharp, but those elders don’t generally need a paid caregiver visiting them on a regular basis, or if they do, it’s mostly for some household tasks that have become more difficult with advanced age.

That said, I’ve had a number of clients in their mid to late 90s with significant physical limitations who were mentally acute and still enjoyed their lives - they enjoyed their meals and various kinds of entertainment (books, movies, hobbies, art-making) and visits from family and friends and occasional field trips to cultural activities and natural landscapes, etc. and very rich relationships with their caregivers, too. Their lives didn’t look all that much different than most people of much younger ages - many of whom are couch potatoes with poor health and limited social engagement beyond staring at their phones and social media or video games or streaming videos.

So, who are we to tell older folks their lives aren’t valuable? Perhaps your life is no longer so valuable to you now that you’re an elder (65 is the sociological and medical standard for the onset of the elderly designation, although until age 74 you are considered ‘early elderly’), but that surely isn’t how many others see it. Some people - clearly I’ve seen in recent weeks some on this board - really struggle with getting older, but some people embrace the changes as just a new chapter of life with new and different experiences and challenges. Certainly I understand that if one spends all one’s mental time lamenting the effects of gravity on the body and oxidation on the skin and the invisible designation that is visited upon most of the over 50 set by the younger folks in our youth-obsessed culture, it could seem like a shitty time of life and something to resist and devalue. As in all of life, attitude is everything.

As for me - I’m only 49 and would like to enjoy another 20 years, which is the most I could reasonably ‘expect’ in light of my health issues and absent accident or the sudden onset of cancer or heart disease. Certainly I know that tomorrow is promised to no one, but that knowledge doesn’t preclude employing common sense in the face of a pandemic when science and public health research provides very simple tools one can follow to protect oneself from entirely unnecessary illness and possible death.

And I’m thinking of the 6 week old baby who died of covid19 in Connecticut, and the young kids now struggling on ventilators in many states (and around the world - I’ve seen reports from UK of kids very sick with covid19), so this is not just about whether the elderly are valuable enough to sacrifice our economy. Every night on the news there are stories of healthy folks dying in the prime of life - people in their 30s, 40s, many who leave children without a parent - so while the stats certainly disadvantage the elderly more than anyone else, I think we shouldn’t shape our thinking about this pandemic as just another issue where the elderly aren’t as valuable in our society.

And we should be thinking most of all, as we decide whether to laugh off stay at home directives and social distancing guidelines, just how many doctors and nurses and respiratory therapists and CNAs and EMTs we are willing to kill out of our selfish determination to keep life normal in a time that just isn’t normal - because that’s what we are ultimately doing. We all have a choice about whether to risk exposure to this virus - they have no choice, and they are daily exposed to higher loads than anyone else. Doctors and nurses, whatever the faults in our healthcare system and the personal and professional shortcomings some of them exhibit, don’t come from Cracker Jack boxes - they require years of schooling and training to make, and we already faced serious shortages of both before they started dying by the dozens from covid19.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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Re: Day 9 in the countdown to an end to the COVID-19 panic.

Post by Lord Jim »

Good post BSG...

Nobody can decide for someone else whether their quality of life is worth living; there is no more profoundly personal decision then that. I make no judgements about the choices anyone chooses to make.

In my case, I'm 60 years old, and while I do have some serious health issues, and have had an occasional complication I always bounce right back. My quality of life remains overall excellent, (in some ways I'm actually healthier now than before I had these issues) and I could not be more optimistic and positive about my prospects. I too am planning on at least another good 20 years :ok

As far as a DNR is concerned, personally I'll pass. I have a lot of underlying physical and mental strength (a point with which my doctors agree) so revive me, and at least give me a shot. We've discussed it, and if after I've been revived I am really in a genuine no-hope-of-recovery, no brain activity situation, I trust Kelly to make the right decision to "pull the plug". (On the other hand, if I'm in a light coma with good prospects for recovery, then I want that chance. There's no way to make the assessment without being revived.)

Again, I'm only 60, I have a lot to live for, and I see no harm in giving someone who I know genuinely cares about me a few hours to make an informed decision regarding the best course based on my actual specific circumstances. Personally I find that vastly superior to filing some paper that would just assume the worst and put the decision as to whether I live or die on auto-pilot with no regard for what my actual specific situation is.

But again, I make no judgements about whatever choices anyone else makes in this regard (and I realize that not everyone is blessed to have someone in their life with whom they have this level of trust and confidence to make the right call.)

There are no absolute right answers with this sort of decision; the only right answers are the ones that are right for you...
Last edited by Lord Jim on Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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