A question about pit bull dogs

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BoSoxGal
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Re: A question about pit bull dogs

Post by BoSoxGal »

Nice that you think it’s funny when someone is nearly killed by a pack of pit bulls and her dog ripped to shreds in front of her. I’m sure y’all would just laugh that off and go on your merry careless way into the rest of your life.

Oh and fuck right off.
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Re: A question about pit bull dogs

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ex-khobar Andy wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:59 pm
I worry about acorns.
I had one of these unopened bad boys drop silently from over 50 feet and miss me by inches. That would have ruined the cross country skiing that day.

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Re: A question about pit bull dogs

Post by Bicycle Bill »

Well, BSG, it's like the cartoons in the old days that showed kids throwing snowballs at the top hats of old, smug, pompous fuddy-duddies.
You presented a similar, target-like opportunity to the masses, so you shouldn't have been surprised when someone like me accepted the challenge.
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Re: A question about pit bull dogs

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Poor ole BSG.

It seems like she can't get an even break.

Kinda like Donald Trump.

Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.


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Re: A question about pit bull dogs

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ex-khobar Andy wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:59 pm
I worry about acorns. One of these from a 150 foot (45.72 meters, for those of that lifestyle choice) tree could kill you. That's why I never go for a walk around my block without a hard hat. It's even worse if a squirrel gets hold of it and decides to toss it at you: the added speed of a well flung fling is just a dead cert.

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Those are horse-chestnuts surely? Acorns are non-lethal.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Re: A question about pit bull dogs

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Acorns of white oak, quercus insignis. At least according to these guys:

https://www.internationaloaksociety.org ... does-shape

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Re: A question about pit bull dogs

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Do they have a spiky green covering before falling?

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Re: A question about pit bull dogs

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https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/barrow ... WJS3A73CY/

Lovely 15 year old rising HS sophomore now on a ventilator w/tracheostomy after having her entire scalp and ear ripped off and her neck profoundly damaged by two pit bulls who ‘got out of the owner’s yard’ in her neighborhood.

Why would anyone spend any time worrying about being attacked by a pit bull while walking in their neighborhood? Must be a neurotic freak. :roll:


Dogs bite - some dogs don’t let go
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Re: A question about pit bull dogs

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Yes, there are tragedies when pit bulls kill and injure people.

According to the National Weather Service, 49 people a year, on average, die from lightning strikes.

A Wilderness and Environmental Medicine Journal article counted 186 fatal dog attacks (all breeds, not just pit bulls) for the 12 year period 1979 - 1990. That's just under 16 per year.

(These are US numbers.) So you have approximately 3 times the risk of being killed by lightning.

Edited to add: according to that WEMJ paper, hornets, bees and wasps killed 527 in that 12 year period or about 44 per year.

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Re: A question about pit bull dogs

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Each day about 1,000 U.S. citizens require emergency care treatment for serious dog bite injuries. Annually, about 14,025 citizens are hospitalized due to dog bite injuries.
Also, not sure why you’d reach back so far for dog bite fatality stats when the link I provided shows the most recent 14 year period, wherein deaths have nearly tripled to 37/year (521 over the 14 year period).

Just to emphasize, death isn’t the only result of a dog attack. Being scalped and nearly killed and ending up without ever having natural hair and being deaf in one ear and permanently disfigured plus having PTSD for the rest of your life seems like something to be concerned about, don’t you think? Never mind about the hundreds of thousands in medical bills that the trash pit bull owner won’t be paying.
Last edited by BoSoxGal on Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A question about pit bull dogs

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"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're on the menu."

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Re: A question about pit bull dogs

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Also I would like to add this obvious point:

Lighting cannot be controlled, although one can certainly take precautions to avoid exposure to it. I have an app on my phone that alerts me of nearby lightning strikes and I can take cover from dangerous thunderstorms as they roll through. Similarly, bees and hornets and wasps are a force of nature, but one against which a person can take precautions and in worst case scenarios, extermination can be employed when hornets and wasps take up residence in close proximity to humans. (Bees should be relocated by a beekeeper.)

But pit bull dogs are useless garbage animals that serve no good purpose and which a person cannot protect against by reasonable precautions, because they are highly unpredictable and randomly inflicted on a community by trash owners who can’t be bothered to keep them properly confined. Same for the other monster type canines that reckless owners allow to get loose and attack neighbors - at least they could limit the carnage to their own babies and grandmas! Fucking jackasses.

So yeah, very different from lightning or hymenoptera.
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Re: A question about pit bull dogs

Post by BoSoxGal »

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Get over it Joslyn, you’re more likely to get hit by lightning than killed by a dog attack. Sorry about your mutilated head and face and deafness and being in a coma on a ventilator with a tracheotomy, what a bummer.

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They really should start publishing the pictures of ripped up dead babies and grandmas in the newspapers every time this happens; maybe then people would get serious about banning these monster breeds and criminal penalties for the negligent owners.
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Re: A question about pit bull dogs

Post by BoSoxGal »

By the way, here’s the 15 month old who was eaten by a pit bull two weeks ago in East Providence.
AB4D10EB-90A8-4888-8168-CCE6B917589F.jpeg
I’m sure her family would be comforted to know it was more likely she’d have been struck by lightning or stung to death by hymenoptera.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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Re: A question about pit bull dogs

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

To use your own terminology, (expletive deleted) off BSG. I never said that the injuries or deaths of anyone is anything less than tragic. Do NOT put words into my mouth.

More recent statistics from WEMJ for the period 2008 to 2015 - the most recent I could find in a peer reviewed journal - put hornets, wasps and bees at 60 fatalities per year and dogs - all dogs - at 34 per year. They are using a CDC database I do not have access to.

To repeat: any death from an animal attack is tragic and, in the US at least, rare. That includes sharks, snakes, scorpions, bison, mountain lions and pet dogs.

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Re: A question about pit bull dogs

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Whatever Andy, your prior post was very clearly minimizing the seriousness because ‘it’s not as common as’ . . .

Nice try though. Especially as you yet again, disingenuously, ignore the many thousands of disfigurements (and post traumatic stress victims) that happen beyond fatalities.

AND, you entirely disregarded my hugely relevant point about pit bulls and other killer dog breeds not being fundamental aspects of nature as lightning and hymenoptera are. So, you can think ‘fuck off BSG’ all you like, but your argument is weak just the same.
Last edited by BoSoxGal on Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A question about pit bull dogs

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PS, your ‘my science is better than your science’ crap is not impressive, either. Dogsbite.org is a recognized leader in collating and documenting dog attack injuries and fatalities in the USA, they use reputable sources like law enforcement records, news accounts, CDC, etc. and it is ALL they do, so I’m sure they catch cases not properly reported to CDC because guess what, that happens. Rejecting their stats in favor of a source with lower numbers is just stupid.

https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-stati ... ations.php

PS, they provide a background story for every single fatality - name, location, type of dog/dogs attacking, etc. It is entirely legitimate and you can verify every case yourself via ye olde Google machine.
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Re: A question about pit bull dogs

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WOOF

Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.


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Re: A question about pit bull dogs

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Anyway, back to stupid pit bull dog owners, here’s a horrific recent entry from Dogsbite.org; I’m quoting but encourage visiting the original page for all the hyperlinked sources.
Created: April 22, 2020
Last updated: June 22, 2020
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After Severe Facial Attack by a Relative's Pit Bull, Shame Follows and a Willingness to Suppress Breed Information
camdon bozell, suppress breed information
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Camdon Bozell suffered multiple fractures after being attacked by a relative's pit bull.
Severe Facial Attack
Plainwell, MI - Late Monday, we learned that a 6-year old boy was attacked in the face by a relative's pit bull on Saturday. Camdon Bozell suffered a broken nose, fractured skull and many facial injuries. "He underwent emergency surgery and was pieced back together by a plastic surgeon and taken to ICU for recovery," states Becky Rose, the organizer of his fundraiser. The attack occurred at his paternal grandmother's home, while his mother, Tristin Lent, was at work.

In what we can only term as "bizarre," Lent spoke to Fox 17 about her son's attack, but spent nearly an equal amount of time "defending the breed." Lent was surprised the pit bull "went for his face" in "literally a second." The attack was "totally unprovoked," she said. "This dog has no history of aggression. He's used to being around loud, rambunctious kids," she said. Unknowingly, Lent just ticked off the well-identified risks of why pit bulls are dangerous, especially to children.

Next, Lent defended the breed. "I love pit bulls too and always have," she said. Then she displayed shame and a willingness to suppress breed information. "Now when people are asking 'what breed' he was, and I just don't want to answer them," she said. "Because I know that once I say, 'it's a pit bull'…" Again, this is after Lent stated the reasons why pit bulls are dangerous: an unprovoked violent attack to the face and the pit bull, allegedly, had no history of aggression.

"The data showed that compared with other dog breeds, pit bull terriers inflicted more complex wounds, were often unprovoked, and went off property to attack ... The probability of a bite resulting in a complex wound was 4.4 times higher for pit bulls compared with the other top-biting breeds ... and the odds of an off-property attack by a pit bull was 2.7 times greater than that for all other breeds."1

Though we have not yet done a post devoted to the above West Virginia study (we only show highlights), it has relevant findings given Lent's reaction. The study is the first to define a "mauling event." Mauling injuries were recorded "when 3 or more bites occurred over 2 or more distinct regional anatomic areas, typically the craniofacial region, back, torso, and extremities." Pit bulls were responsible for the most, 12, and 67% (8) of these attacks were inflicted on family members.

The study also examined scienter status, which was "directed at all owners and some relatives whose dog inhabited the domicile in which the attack took place." This status was "recorded as positive if there was knowledge of aggressive behavior of the dog (dogfighting, growling, or posture indicating threat of chasing or biting) or the dog had attacked or bitten a person before the current injury," states the study. Pit bull owners, however, could not be trusted to be honest.

Pit bull owners admitted to a positive scienter status in 14 of the 49 recorded bites. However, knowledge of previous aggression could not be determined for a high number of pit bulls because of the non-family status of the dog or because the owners or family members were ambiguous as to their dog's behavior history or "would not admit such knowledge." One adult who sustained mauling injuries refused to identify the breed of her dog, thus it remained "unknown" in the study.

For the remainder of this post, it is presumed this mauling event was carried out by the female victim's own pit bull, not an "unknown" breed.

Lent is now in the position of doing the same thing. "Now when people are asking 'what breed' he was, and I just don't want to answer them," she said. No doubt due to the person's predictable response. "That is what pit bulls are known for." They will attack without provocation; without a history of aggression (known or otherwise); will inflict complex wounds, and in this case, multiple facial and skull fractures. This was a "mauling event," not a "dog bite" as the fundraiser claims.

Further, of the 9 unreported fatal dog maulings we have uncovered through public records requests, 89% (8) involved pit bulls and 78% (7) involved family pit bulls killing a household member. Thus, the most common scenario of an unreported fatal dog mauling involves a family pit bull. This may be due to the same shame demonstrated by Lent. Pit bull owners and their family members will undermine statistics by suppressing information after a fatal pit bull mauling.

The Creepy Video
In addition to the GoFundMe, the organizer published a disturbing video of the boy in distress. The video, in our eyes, was strictly for fundraising purposes. In the background, one hears the mother attempting to console her son. The creepy fundraising video appears to be exploitive, but perhaps was a necessary evil in the fundraiser's mind to garner more donations. By Wednesday afternoon, the fund for Camdon had reached over $36,000 with the initial goal of reaching only $2,000.

Owner of the Dog
Camdon was visiting his paternal grandmother's home when the attack occurred, but this does not inform readers who owns the dog. The dog could belong to the grandmother or family members who lived at her home or were visiting. The fundraiser only indicates the owner is male. The "ambiguousness" of who owns the pit bull is deliberate by family members, just as pit bull owners or family members were ambiguous about their dog's history of aggression in the medical study.

Alarmingly, the Fox 17 article insinuates the dog is being hidden by the owner as well. "Kalamazoo County Animal Control is investigating the case, but would not comment further," states the article. "The exact whereabouts and future for the dog are unknown at this time," states the article. That was reported Monday evening and the attack occurred on Saturday. Given this outrageous ambiguity, we imagine there is a good chance Camdon is also undergoing rabies vaccination.

That would be one more checkbox from the West Virginia medical study. No provocation, no scienter status, no vaccination, simple wounds: yes, complex wounds: yes, multiple fractures: yes (facial and skull), and in this case, the attack was on property. Among vaccination status in the study, it states: "Most dogs were vaccinated. A disturbing trend was noted, however, among pit bulls: 37% were not vaccinated or could not be confirmed as vaccinated, which was significant."

West Virginia medical study
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Table from the medical study, Dog-Bite Injuries to the Craniofacial Region (Kahn, et al., 2020)

Owning a Pit Bull
The stigma of being a defender of the breed, as Lent displayed, or owning a pit bull, as the female in the study displayed by refusing to name her dog breed after it attacked her, most often comes to light after an unprovoked attack by a family pit bull. There is shame because the public has known for many years that pit bulls are a well-identified risk for inflicting severe injury. When an innocent child is the victim, the shame experienced by the owner or their family members is likely worse.
We have also seen denial by family members after a family pit bull has killed a household member: "The family does not blame the breed."2

On the Fox 17 Facebook post, commenter Sierra Moore-Day claimed to "know this particular situation" and stated what other commenters said. The "boy's uncle lives with the grandma and is the owner of the dog."3 Moore-Day defended Lent, calling her a "great mother" and that "it sucks that her interview with the news comes off as that she is still a supporter of the breed." Moore-Day also stated that Lent asked the owner of the dog to put it down and the male owner refused.

Though this information is unconfirmed, Moore-Day is believable. She is also correct that Lent had no control over how Fox 17 edited her interview. Media often picks the most controversial (or emotional) aspects of an interview to create drama or to incite controversy. However, Lent did say what she said. Those words were then juxtaposed against her son's injuries after being mauled by a relative's pit bull that was "used to being around loud, rambunctious kids," according to Lent.

Summary
Pit bull supporters, owners and their family members will suppress breed information, either to lower their feelings of shame or to "protect the breed" after a serious or fatal mauling. The West Virginia study documented that an owner will even do this in a trauma center after being severely attacked by her own dog. When the denial of well-identified risks is confronted by an actual outcome, an unprovoked facial attack resulting in severe injury, humiliation sometimes follows.

Operating on the theory that Moore-Day's information is valid does not remove what Lent said on camera, but it does offer context. Lent did not own the dog, has asked the owner to put it down, and the owner, allegedly the child's uncle, has refused. The child's uncle is the despicable party. Lent said, "I love pit bulls too and always have" at a disastrous time. She also expressed shame and a willingness to suppress breed information when she did not even own the pit bull!

Camdon Bozell needs all of the help that he can get. His road to recovery will be long and insurance only covers reconstructive surgeries, not cosmetic. The GoFundMe states that he may have "possible nerve damage to the left side of his face" too. Throughout his recovery, there will be too many doctor visits to count. As his face and skull grows, he will likely undergo future plastic surgery. This tragedy could have been prevented if the uncle had owned a beagle instead.

camdon bozell, suppress breed information
Camdon Bozell seen in hospital bed after being attacked in the face by a relative's pit bull.
You can make a donation to Camdon Bozell's "Mauling Event" medical fund at GoFundMe.
1Dog-Bite Injuries to the Craniofacial Region: An Epidemiologic and Pattern-of-Injury Review at a Level 1 Trauma Center by by Khan K, Horswell B and Samanta D, MS J Oral Maxillofac Surg, March 2020 [2019 Nov 14, Epub].
2The brother of the victim's full statement after Connie Holley was brutally attacked by her son's pit bull: "The family does not blame the breed. I am her brother. I love pits have only met a couple that have been bad. I personally think the dog a rabies. This dog did not attack like a normal dog. It attracted her drug her into the bushes, brutally ripping her thighs down to the bone. He bit her on the neck and behind her head, he them continued to rip and chew on her for the next 4 hours. It was a horrible tragedy. But I don't blame the breed. So that I squared up maybe you can do something constructive and tell people to vaccinate their pets." [sic]

3 The male pit bull could be "Chaos." We hope we are wrong about this.
Related articles:
03/25/20: Victim Shares Video After Violent Facial Pit Bull Mauling
09/21/17: 2017 Dog Bite Fatality: Woman Dies of Injuries After Pit Bull Mauling in Mississippi
https://blog.dogsbite.org/2020/04/shame ... ation.html
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Re: A question about pit bull dogs

Post by Bicycle Bill »

And of course each and every dog attack is one of those 'garbage breeds' like pit bulls.  BULLSHIT!!
From that same 'dogsbite.org' website you linked to:
In the 15-year period of 2005 through 2019, canines killed 521 Americans.  Pit bulls contributed to 66% (346) of these deaths. Combined, pit bulls and rottweilers contributed to 76% of the total recorded deaths.
and elsewhere, under their 'About Us' page:
Who we are
DogsBite.org is a public education website about dangerous dog breeds, chiefly pit bulls. (emphasis mine)
It is apparent that this is a single-issue group who, like you, has a hard-on against pit bulls.  Had they been in existence 20 years ago, I dare say they would have been up in arms against German shepherds and Doberman pinschers.

I also find it rather telling that, nowhere in their website do they show a table of injuries caused by dog attacks/bites broken down by all breeds — although I will admit that I didn't spend more than ten minutes researching it, on the basis that something like that should have been one of the more prominent pieces of data presented .... unless they had one particular axe to grind (see their "who we are" statement; by their own words they hoist themselves on their own petard) and, like President Trumplethinskin, conveniently ignore anything that doesn't support the particular point they are trying to make.

So you personally don't like pit bulls.  We get it.  You don't need to be an asshole about it.
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