I was on the night shift in the QC lab at Merck in N London. We had 24/7 manufacturing so my job was to check the product as it came off the line - did it meet specs and, because it was being sold in America, FDA regs? Sometime around 2AM the news came through that John Lennon had been shot and killed. Most of the manufacturing operation was too noisy for the men (they were all men IIRC) to listen to a radio and it was before we all had Walkmans or whatever so I spread the news around. Shock everywhere. Not necessarily Lennon/Beatles fans (most of my friends were Stones and/or Led Zeppelin adherents) but everyone was just shocked.
Re: 40 years ago . . .
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:57 pm
by TPFKA@W
It irritates me to this day that he was hailed a "hero". The word is egregiously ill used on entertainers and athletes.
Re: 40 years ago . . .
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 6:56 pm
by Big RR
A hero ain't nothin' but a sandwich.
But I agree the word is often overused and/or used inappropriately. I recall a little after the 9/11 attack, a sign listing all the dead's names near ground zero, with some statement like "The Heroes of Sep 11". Now I have not doubt some did act heroically, but most just died sitting at their desks or otherwise doing their jobs (maybe even while sitting on the toilet like Elvis) and weren't heroes at all. Victims? Yes. Martyrs? Perhaps. but the label hero does not apply.
As for Lennon, I applaud his stance when Nixon pushed to have him deported, and I greatly respect his talent. But I don't see hero applying.
Re: 40 years ago . . .
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 7:52 pm
by Joe Guy
I guess it depends on what you think of John Lennon and how you define 'Hero'.
Lennon is/was a hero by Google's definition: "a person who is admired or idealized for courage, outstanding achievements, or noble qualities."
Re: 40 years ago . . .
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:16 pm
by Bicycle Bill
Google also defines nonsense words like 'smol' and 'thicc', too. To most people, Lennon was a celebrity, and 'celebrity' ≠ 'hero'. -"BB"-
Re: 40 years ago . . .
Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:24 pm
by BoSoxGal
That isn’t just Google’s definition, it’s THE definition.
hero1
Pronunciation /ˈhirō/ /ˈhɪroʊ/
See synonyms for hero
Translate hero into Spanish
NOUNheroes
1A person who is admired or idealized for courage, outstanding achievements, or noble qualities.
‘a war hero’
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.1The chief male character in a book, play, or movie, who is typically identified with good qualities, and with whom the reader is expected to sympathize.
‘the hero of Kipling's story’
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.2(in mythology and folklore) a person of superhuman qualities and often semidivine origin, in particular one whose exploits were the subject of ancient Greek myths.
‘The myth of the solar hero can be found within many of the ancient civilisations even before the Christian era.’
More example sentences
2
(also hero sandwich)
North American
another term for submarine (sense 2 of the noun)
‘A little larger than a hero sandwich, it carries a box of flies, a tippet spool, and a pair of pliers.’
More example sentences
Origin
Middle English (with mythological reference): via Latin from Greek hērōs.
Just because some folks gets fixated on one aspect of the word’s multiple meanings doesn’t make them right by that fixation.
We are each the hero of our own story, but a very small number of us become heroes to others by our extraordinary achievements and how they inspire, comfort or aid others - John Lennon was certainly such a person. Long after all the self righteous sanctimonious prigs who scoff at him being called a hero are nothing but long forgotten dust, Lennon will still be inspiring new generations via his artistic vision and achievement.
We are each the hero of our own story, but a very small number of us become heroes to others by our extraordinary achievements and how they inspire, comfort or aid others - John Lennon was certainly such a person.....
Exactly.
If one or more people don't accept that Lennon was a hero to them, that doesn't mean he wasn't a hero to others.
Google also defines nonsense words like 'smol' and 'thicc', too. To most people, Lennon was a celebrity, and 'celebrity' ≠ 'hero'. -"BB"-
That's a pretty broad definition, and one I don't agree with. FWIW, I don't think Mozart or Beethoven were heroes either.
But if some choose to view Lennon as a hero, I can't disagree. I just think hero connotes something more than being exceptionally talented in one's chosen field.
That's a pretty broad definition, and one I don't agree with. FWIW, I don't think Mozart or Beethoven were heroes either.
But if some choose to view Lennon as a hero, I can't disagree. I just think hero connotes something more than being exceptionally talented in one's chosen field.
John Lennon was more than simply a talented musician. He was an artist, writer, singer/songwriter, (a natural comic) and a strong voice for the peace movement of the 60s. He was an inspiration to a lot of people. You are correct by saying he's not your hero but you can't argue with the definition of the word.
Re: 40 years ago . . .
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:10 am
by TPFKA@W
John Lennon slapped his first wife around and was a shitty father to his child by that marriage. He deserves no respect one would give an actual hero.
Re: 40 years ago . . .
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:42 am
by Joe Guy
Does he not deserve some credit for admitting what he did publicly, stopping it and becoming pro-feminist? I have absolutely no respect for spousal abusers but I do have some respect for people who are able realize they were wrong and change their ways.
Just for the record, I don't consider Lennon to be my personal hero but I am a fan....
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Re: 40 years ago . . .
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:46 am
by BoSoxGal
If spousal abuse is gonna be the line in the sand for hero designation, a fuckload of heroes gonna fall.
Does he not deserve some credit for admitting what he did publicly, stopping it and becoming pro-feminist? I have absolutely no respect for spousal abusers but I do have some respect for people who are able realize they were wrong and change their ways.
Just for the record, I don't consider Lennon to be my personal hero but I am a fan....
Not in my book. But hey, whatever boat you want to float. (He still was a shitty father.)
He has also been described as a pathological liar but I haven’t fully investigated that claim.
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Re: 40 years ago . . .
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:06 am
by dales
He did pen this little ditty:
Woman is the nigger of the world
Yes she is, think about it
Woman is the nigger of the world
Think about it, do something about it
We make her paint her face and dance
If she won't be aslave, we say that she don't love us
If she's real, we say she's trying to be a man
While putting her down we pretend that she is above us
Woman is the nigger of the world, yes she is
If you don't believe me take a look to the one you're with
Woman is the slave to the slaves
Ah yeah, better scream about it
We make her bear and raise our children
And then we leave her flat for being a fat old mother hen
We tell her home is the only place she should be
Then we complain that she's too unworldly to be our friend
Woman is the nigger of the world, yes she is
If you don't believe me take a look to the one you're with
Oh woman is the slave to the slaves
Yeah, alright
We insult her everyday on TV
And wonder why she has no guts or confidence
When she's young we kill her will to be free
While telling her not to be so smart we put her down for being so dumb
Woman is the nigger of the world, yes she is
If you don't believe me take a look to the one you're with
Woman is the slave to the slaves
Yes she is, if you believe me, you better scream about it
We make her paint her face and dance
We make her paint her face and dance
We make her paint her face and dance
We make her paint her face and dance
We make her paint her face and dance
We make her paint her face and dance
He has also been described as a pathological liar but I haven’t fully investigated that claim.
I've never heard anything about Lennon being a pathological liar.
Would that mean that all you need is not love?
Strawberry fields temporary?
He isn't the walrus?
Happiness isn't a warm gun?
We shouldn't give peace a chance?
Woman is the nigger of the world
Yes she is, think about it
Woman is the nigger of the world
Think about it, do something about it
We make her paint her face and dance
If she won't be aslave, we say that she don't love us
If she's real, we say she's trying to be a man
While putting her down we pretend that she is above us
Woman is the nigger of the world, yes she is
If you don't believe me take a look to the one you're with
Woman is the slave to the slaves
Ah yeah, better scream about it
We make her bear and raise our children
And then we leave her flat for being a fat old mother hen
We tell her home is the only place she should be
Then we complain that she's too unworldly to be our friend
Woman is the nigger of the world, yes she is
If you don't believe me take a look to the one you're with
Oh woman is the slave to the slaves
Yeah, alright
We insult her everyday on TV
And wonder why she has no guts or confidence
When she's young we kill her will to be free
While telling her not to be so smart we put her down for being so dumb
Woman is the nigger of the world, yes she is
If you don't believe me take a look to the one you're with
Woman is the slave to the slaves
Yes she is, if you believe me, you better scream about it
We make her paint her face and dance
We make her paint her face and dance
We make her paint her face and dance
We make her paint her face and dance
We make her paint her face and dance
We make her paint her face and dance
True that, and very fucking bold. Doesn’t make up for his early behavior in his first marriage and first parenting experience, but he appears to have legitimately evolved over time, while a great many humans are stagnant most of their lives. Given that I’d say the scales balance more in favor of redemption than not.
Re: 40 years ago . . .
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:30 am
by dales
Perhaps the scales fell from his eyes?
Re: 40 years ago . . .
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:45 am
by BoSoxGal
This is definitely worth a watch:
Re: 40 years ago . . .
Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:52 am
by Joe Guy
John would be crucified if he said all of that today. Also, Dick Cavett's show would be cancelled and his home would be torched by white privileged women.
