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A Modern Sherlock Holmes That Actually Works
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:36 am
by Lord Jim
I have to say I was quite surprised....
I've always assumed that when it came to portrayals of Sherlock Holmes, Jeremy Brett pretty much retired with the title...
Let alone a "modern" Holmes...
I have to say that this fellow with the unlikely Dickensian name of Benedict Cumberbatch really captures Holmes and makes the character work in a modern setting...
Mind you, Martin Freeman's Dr. Watson could use a bit of work....
I don't think we've seen the last of Mr. Cumberbatch...
He'd make an excellent James Bond...
Re: A Modern Sherlock Holmes That Actually Works
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:19 pm
by BoSoxGal
I thought Robert Downey Jr.'s 2009 portrayal was interesting. Have you seen it?
I put the series with Cumberpatch into my Netflix queue - thanks for the recommend!
Re: A Modern Sherlock Holmes That Actually Works
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:46 pm
by Lord Jim
I thought Robert Downey Jr.'s 2009 portrayal was interesting. Have you seen it?
I saw that, it wasn't bad...
The Seven Percent Solution, made back in the mid 70's with Nicol Williamson, Vanessa Redgrave, Alan Arkin as Sigmund Freud and Robert Duvall as John Watson was also pretty good...
For my money the best movie Robert Downey Jr. ever made was
Chaplain....a brilliant portrayal....
He was
so perfect re-doing Chaplain's classic bits it was down right spooky....
Re: A Modern Sherlock Holmes That Actually Works
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:53 pm
by Lord Jim
I'm having the great pleasure of introducing
The Adventures Of Sherlock Holmes to Tati...
There is
nothing that makes a parent feel better then when you're sharing a treasured reading memory and your kid says, "Be quiet! I want to read it for myself"
(Makes all those "
Hop On PoP", "
One Fish Two Fish Red Fish Blue Fish" "
Green Eggs And Ham" days seem almost worthwhile....

)
The truly interesting thing to
me about the Holmes character (aside from the inventing forensic science thing...) has always been the fact that
yes, he's a brilliant self absorbed narcissist, but unlike most brilliant self absorbed narcissists, he has a
conscience....
If you read through the original Conan-Doyle stories, Sherlock is always ultimately using his powers "for good"...
Sherlock Holmes was the original super hero....
Re: A Modern Sherlock Holmes That Actually Works
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:37 am
by Gob
Interesting Jim I agree with your main points. I must disagree with you on Freeman's Watson though. I thought he carries it off with aplomb, mixing confusion, humour, and fascination of Homes, and being supportive without being obsequious.
There;'s a new series out later this year, I cannot wait for it.
Oh, we just bought the box set of Brett's Homes, superb, though "The Hound" is not good, not good at all. Though I can forgive Brett in that he was dying as he filmed it.
They too k far too many liberties with the story for my taste, and they didn't film it on Dartmoor, the arses.
Re: A Modern Sherlock Holmes That Actually Works
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:51 am
by Sean
I'm with you on Freeman Strop. I watched that series wishing they'd cast him instead of Jude Law for the movie. Law's Watson was too clued in to what was going on but Freeman had the permanent non-plussed expression of a man who is just along for the ride.
Re: A Modern Sherlock Holmes That Actually Works
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:19 am
by Lord Jim
I guess I just prefer the "non-clueless" Watson interpretation given by both David Burke and Edward Hardwicke in the Brett series to the more bufoonish cartoon-like Watson, that sort of hearkens back to the way Nigel Bruce played the role in the old Basil Rathbone series....
I can forgive Brett in that he was dying as he filmed it.
In some of the last episodes he filmed, he was obviously in such poor health that it was almost painful to watch him....
My personal favorite would have to be "The Eligible Bachelor".....
A little darker than most Holmes stories....
Re: A Modern Sherlock Holmes That Actually Works
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:03 am
by Gob
I don't think he played Watson as a "buffoon", I think he added some humour and pathos to the role, a good foil to Cummerbach's almost Aspergerish Holmes. Let's not forget that Watson was often the but of Holme's humour in the canon.
Re: A Modern Sherlock Holmes That Actually Works
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:13 am
by Sean
Exactly! Watson was 'Everyman'. Somebody for Holmes to explain his deductions to:
Watson: Good God Holmes! However did you deduce that the poor man died by having a citrus fruit forced up his arse?
Holmes: Lemon entry my dear Watson!
Re: A Modern Sherlock Holmes That Actually Works
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:16 am
by loCAtek
Oh boooooooooo! LOL
Re: A Modern Sherlock Holmes That Actually Works
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:12 pm
by Lord Jim
But he should also be smart enough to have been able to write the stories....
And he's a physician.....I don't think he should come across as
dumber than the average person...
So far I've only seen one episode, "A Study in Pink", so maybe I haven't given it enough of try, but in this episode at least, it seemed to me that Freeman's Watson came across as nearly a simpleton.
Of course if you guys don't think he's coming across as dumb as that....
Maybe it's because the character is a lot like
you....

Re: A Modern Sherlock Holmes That Actually Works
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:08 pm
by BoSoxGal
I'm not a particular fan of Jude Law, but I thought his take on Watson was great - I preferred a Watson who was quite tuned in to Holmes's flaws and frailty.
Re: A Modern Sherlock Holmes That Actually Works
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:58 pm
by Lord Jim
I preferred a Watson who was quite tuned in to Holmes's flaws and frailty.
That's my preference as well BSG, and what I found to be one of the strengths of both the actors who played the role in the Brett series.
Re: A Modern Sherlock Holmes That Actually Works
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:05 pm
by rubato
In the original stories Watson is not written as being either simple or buffoonish. That is strictly from filmed versions which were playing to a 'lowest common denominator' audience's desire to have the brilliant Holmes balanced by someone who was his opposite. In the books Watson is very competent and a respected companion of Holmes, which he could never be if he were stupid.
Making Watson look dumb is pandering and cartoonish.
yrs,
rubato
Re: A Modern Sherlock Holmes That Actually Works
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:34 pm
by Crackpot
In my experience it was always Lestrade that was depicted as the buffoon.
Mind you My favorite Holmes was Michael Caine from Without a Clue.
Holmes: How can I be expected to maintain the character when you belittle me in front of those hooligans?
Watson: Character? Are we talking about the same man who once declared with total conviction that the late Colonel Howard had been bludgeoned to death with a blunt *excrement*?
Holmes: Is it my fault you have such poor handwriting?
Re: A Modern Sherlock Holmes That Actually Works
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:04 pm
by Gob
"Well, Watson, what do you make of it?"
Holmes was sitting with his back to me, and I had given him no sign of my occupation.
"How did you know what I was doing? I believe you have eyes in the back of your head."
"I have, at least, a well-polished, silver-plated coffee-pot in front of me," said he. "But, tell me, Watson, what do you make of our visitor's stick? Since we have been so unfortunate as to miss him and have no notion of his errand, this accidental souvenir becomes of importance. Let me hear you reconstruct the man by an examination of it."
"I think," said I, following as far as I could the methods of my companion, "that Dr. Mortimer is a successful, elderly medical man, well-esteemed since those who know him give him this mark of their appreciation."
"Good!" said Holmes. "Excellent!"
"I think also that the probability is in favour of his being a country practitioner who does a great deal of his visiting on foot."
"Why so?"
"Because this stick, though originally a very handsome one has been so knocked about that I can hardly imagine a town practitioner carrying it. The thick-iron ferrule is worn down, so it is evident that he has done a great amount of walking with it."
"Perfectly sound!" said Holmes.
"And then again, there is the 'friends of the C.C.H.' I should guess that to be the Something Hunt, the local hunt to whose members he has possibly given some surgical assistance, and which has made him a small presentation in return."
"Really, Watson, you excel yourself," said Holmes, pushing back his chair and lighting a cigarette. "I am bound to say that in all the accounts which you have been so good as to give of my own small achievements you have habitually underrated your own abilities. It may be that you are not yourself luminous, but you are a conductor of light. Some people without possessing genius have a remarkable power of stimulating it. I confess, my dear fellow, that I am very much in your debt."
He had never said as much before, and I must admit that his words gave me keen pleasure, for I had often been piqued by his indifference to my admiration and to the attempts which I had made to give publicity to his methods. I was proud, too, to think that I had so far mastered his system as to apply it in a way which earned his approval. He now took the stick from my hands
and examined it for a few minutes with his naked eyes. Then with an expression of interest he laid down his cigarette, and carrying the cane to the window, he looked over it again with a convex lens.
"Interesting, though elementary," said he as he returned to his favourite corner of the settee. "There are certainly one or two indications upon the stick. It gives us the basis for several deductions."
"Has anything escaped me?" I asked with some self-importance. "I trust that there is nothing of consequence which I have overlooked?"
"I am afraid, my dear Watson, that most of your conclusions were erroneous. When I said that you stimulated me I meant, to be frank, that in noting your fallacies I was occasionally guided towards the truth. Not that you are entirely wrong in this instance. The man is certainly a country practitioner. And he walks a good deal."
"When I said that you stimulated me I meant, to be frank, that in noting your fallacies I was occasionally guided towards the truth."
Now
that's what we call taking the piss...
The fact that Watson is often taken in by Holmes's disguises, (also consider "the man on the Tor") and can always be relied on to provide a wrong hypothesis, in order to show Holmes's superior deductive powers, show that he is not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree.
Re: A Modern Sherlock Holmes That Actually Works
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:14 pm
by Gob
Oh, and Holmes's first words to Watson in the "new" version; "I see you have been in Afghanistan", the same as in the Canon (Though Conan Doyle used "perceive" in the books), as a tangible and credible link between the old and the new, was just exquisite.
Re: A Modern Sherlock Holmes That Actually Works
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:41 pm
by rubato
Watson is portrayed as less intelligent than Holmes, but then so is everyone else. He is not in that scene or elsewhere portrayed as stupid or buffoonish. Maybe this point is too subtle for you?
yrs,
rubato
Re: A Modern Sherlock Holmes That Actually Works
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:00 pm
by Gob
Maybe, I've never said that he should be portrayed as buffoonish, and do not believe that he should be, or is that point too subtle for you?
I believe Nigel Bruce's portrayal was the greatest insult to the canon on celluloid, at least Dudley Moore was trying (abet failing) to be funny. Donal Churchill came close to Bruce, Shatner's Stapleton was errmmm interesting too. Edward Hardwicke gave the definitive performance, although he too, and I watched Brett's "The Hound" again two nights ago, did not let the humour of Doyle/Homes at Watson's expense go unoted.
Why not try dealing with what people actually write, or is that still a problem for you? If so, so back onto ignore you go.
Re: A Modern Sherlock Holmes That Actually Works
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:31 pm
by The Hen
Is no one going to mention the John Cleese version of Holmes in 'the strange case of the end of civilization as we know it'?
Masterful.
Arthur Lowe made for a brilliant Watson.
[Watson is reading clues from a crossword puzzle to Holmes]
Dr. William Watson, M.D.: 1 Across. A simple source of citrus fruit, 1, 5, 4.
Arthur Sherlock Holmes: A lemon tree, my dear Watson.
[Elsewhere in the hotel, Moriarty shoots Sam Spade]
Dr. William Watson, M.D.: 2 Down. Conservative pays ex-wife maintenance. 7, 5.
Arthur Sherlock Holmes: Alimony...alimony Tory, my dear Watson.
Arthur Sherlock Holmes: Never cease to astound me.
[Moriarty takes a sword to Hercule Poirot]
Dr. William Watson, M.D.: 2 Down. Southern California style. 1, 2, 8.
Arthur Sherlock Holmes: A la Monterrey, my dear Watson.
Dr. William Watson, M.D.: Really good, holmes.
[Moriarty shoots M]
Dr. William Watson, M.D.: 4 Down. Burglar's entrance
Arthur Sherlock Holmes: Alarm entry, my dear Watson
Dr. William Watson, M.D.: That's rather poor, isn't it, Holmes? Right. One to go. A cowardly fish with a sting in its tail.
Arthur Sherlock Holmes: Yellow manta ray, my dear Watson
Dr. William Watson, M.D.: Brilliant, Holmes