Plan B Forum

How does a 26 year police veteran, and a training officer to boot, "mistake" an over 2 pound Glock for an 8 oz, neon-coloured taser?

Even assuming it to be credible that such a "mistake" could be made, how does the said 26 year veteran training officer completely disregard her own police force's training manual that prohibits the use of a taser against the operator of a motor vehicle and in other situations that risk collateral damage?

And how do we explain this 26 year veteran training officer aiming her "taser" at her victim's chest, thus fatally wounding him, when procedure dictates aiming for the lower central mass, precisely to avoid having the electric current interfere with cardiac rhythm?

Why do we continue attempting to excuse highly trained and experienced police officers when their flagrant rejection of their training and their panicked responses result in indiscriminate slaughter, and yet we expect young black men, knowing that the police have a target on their backs, to remain calm, collected and compliant when faced with frenzied police officers shrieking uncontrollably and waving guns in their face?

She panicked.

One would think a veteran police officer would understand that momentary panic the person might have when being arrested; I have worked on a number of DUIs and watched the dash cam records and most people start to panic when the cuffs are being applied. Most police canhandle it without shooting or tazing the person. If she is that prone to panic, at the very least she should not remain a police officer.

As for the mixing up of the weapon and tazer, that's not so easily explained IMHO; maybe the panic can cause some, but the news last night said it is SOP for officers to carry the taser on their non dominant side and I would think proper training would prevent that mix up even with panic.

I read that there have been nine previous incidents where a gun was supposedly mistaken for a taser, and in six of those cases the taser was being carried on the wrong side. Once again, even mistaking the gun for the taser doesn't explain why SOP for using the taser was ignored.

Why was a weapon of any kind drawn at all?

Indeed, and why was any priority given to making this stop in the first place. Dinging people for expired tags in the COVID era smacks of a pretext for racial profiling.

I am gonna explain it to you so even a very polite Canadian can understand.

Police in America are scared. When people are scared, they do stupid things because the higher management brain functions are by-passed. "Training" is mostly sitting in a class room being exposed by hearing and seeing official policy and practice for the particular local police organization . The qualification usually is determines by firing a weapon at paper targets and taking a pencil and paper quiz. "Use of force training" rarely includes various stressors to simulate the physiological and mental changes that changes the ability to make good decisions or even tell the difference between a Glock Pistol and a Taser non-lethal electronic gadget, when one is scared because of fear of attack from a subject, or fear of going to jail or worse if the officer makes the wrong decision.

Police training in the use of force, of all kinds, need to be done in conditions of stress. Firearm training needs to be with 'air soft' or paintball guns against rubber knives with chalk on the edge that leaves a mark with contact, or rubber clubs. while lighting is bad, people are shouting and hurling stuff at the officer, and facing an opponent that is 100 pounds and a foot bigger than the trainee, and superficially looks ready to do bodily harm, and there is the noise of gunfire from another source.

The old rule, rarely honored in a time of reduced budget for all local government activities, is that training needs to be harder than the actual event one is training for.

In this particular event, the official announcements from the public relations person about this death: "This was an unfortunate un-intended discharge".
reveals just how weak and ineffective the current training is in that police organization.

snailgate

Scooter wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:56 pm

Indeed, and why was any priority given to making this stop in the first place. Dinging people for expired tags in the COVID era smacks of a pretext for racial profiling.

According to Chief Tim Gannon of the Brooklyn Center Police Department, officers pulled Mr. Wright over on Sunday afternoon for a traffic violation related to expired registration tags. Officers then discovered that he had a warrant for his arrest.

It was after that, Gannon said, that the officers discovered that a "gross misdemeanor warrant" for Wright's arrest had been issued.

A gross misdemeanor is a serious criminal offense in Minnesota. It is defined as any crime that is punishable by up to one year in jail and/or a $3,000 fine. Common gross misdemeanors include the following offenses: a second DWI within 10 years, a first-time DWI with a BAC of 2.0 or greater, DWI test refusal, and theft of property valued between $500 - $1,000.

Not worth fleeing - not deserving of a shooting

Scooter wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:56 pm

Indeed, and why was any priority given to making this stop in the first place. Dinging people for expired tags in the COVID era smacks of a pretext for racial profiling.

And just what, in your opinion, would be a valid reason to make a stop in the first place — whether it's in the COVID era or not?
Or to put it another way, which laws would you say a motorist should be allowed to violate with impunity?

You're probably the same sort of person that recommends the cops end a pursuit and just let the guy go if he exceeds a certain speed in trying to escape "to prevent possible injury to other innocent/uninvolved motorists".

-"BB"-

The stop was legit.

The young man shouldn't have resisted.

The police-person fucked up.

Bicycle Bill wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:50 pm

And just what, in your opinion, would be a valid reason to make a stop in the first place — whether it's in the COVID era or not?
Or to put it another way, which laws would you say a motorist should be allowed to violate with impunity?

At a time when DMVs are probably operating at minimal capacity, if at all, police probably have a lot better things to do than bust someone's balls over an expired tag. When another cop is currently on trial for murdering a black man over a trivial underlying offence, it didn't exactly demonstrate the best professional judgment to decide to make a training exercise out of harassing another black kid over an expired tag. Said complete absence of professional judgment manifesting itself in spades in the ensuing encounter.

You're probably the same sort of person that recommends the cops end a pursuit and just let the guy go if he exceeds a certain speed in trying to escape "to prevent possible injury to other innocent/uninvolved motorists".

Depends on the underlying crime and the risk of collateral damage. High speed chase on a sparsely travelled interstate in pursuit of a child sex trafficker? Sure. Through a residential subdivision when school is letting out, to nab someone who swiped a pack of cigarettes? Completely unjustifiable.

Once again, it's called professional judgment, something that appears to be in very short supply among cops today.

David Gray

I need to drive my two-year-old to daycare tomorrow morning. To ensure we arrive alive, we won't take public transit (Oscar Grant). I removed all air fresheners from the vehicle and double-checked my registration status (Daunte Wright), and ensured my license plates were visible (Lt. Caron Nazario). I will be careful to follow all traffic rules (Philando Castille), signal every turn (Sandra Bland), keep the radio volume low (Jordan Davis), and won't stop at a fast food chain for a meal (Rayshard Brooks). I'm too afraid to pray (Rev. Clementa C. Pickney) so I just hope the car won't break down (Corey Jones).

When my wife picks him up at the end of the day, I'll remind her not to dance (Elijah McClain), stop to play in a park (Tamir Rice), patronize the local convenience store for snacks (Trayvon Martin), or walk around the neighborhood (Mike Brown). Once they are home, we won't stand in our backyard (Stephon Clark), eat ice cream on the couch (Botham Jean), or play any video games (Atatiana Jefferson).

After my wife and I tuck him into bed around 7:30pm, neither of us will leave the house to go to Walmart (John Crawford) or to the gym (Tshyrand Oates) or on a jog (Ahmaud Arbery). We won't even walk to see the birds (Christian Cooper). We'll just sit and try not to breathe (George Floyd) and not to sleep (Breonna Taylor).

Does anyone here believe that the officer who did this did it intentionally?

Everything I have said here has been predicated on the assumption that she mistakenly grabbed her gun instead of the taser. The issue becomes the sequence of intentional choices that she did make that allowed it to come to that.

The answer can only be "racism" obvs..

Only answer? No. Possible answer? Sure, experience has shown that. Likely answer? That assessment would depend on your experience. But face it, is there any no real excuse, let alone justification, for killing someone under these circumstances?

The question is asked: " Does anyone here believe that the officer who did this did it intentionally?"

Did what intentionally? What was her intention when she pulled the trigger?
Was she temporarily insane, unable to recognize the man was no lethal threat to society or the police?
If she did not intend to shoot him, who placed the gun in her hand? If her 'intention' was to Taser him, why did she not have a taser in her hand? Majority USA society no longer accepts action while drrunk as acton without responsibility. [that WAS the majoritarian view when I was a child] What is the chain of rational social justice that says sometime between the point of dressing and equipping oneself for duty as a police officer on the street and pulling the trigger on a duty pistol while pointed at the chest of a man huddled down on the seat inside a car and surrounded by other officers, the cop can be absolved as just an unfortunate accident.

snailgate

Big RR wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:30 pm

But face it, is there any no real excuse, let alone justification, for killing someone under these circumstances?

None at all. But, let's face it, this is the USA we're talking about.