The Theranos trial

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ex-khobar Andy
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The Theranos trial

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

NYT reports from the trial of Elizabeth Holmes taking place in San Jose:

Unlike the frenzy that has surrounded nearly every twist and turn in the Theranos saga, the trial of Elizabeth Holmes has been surprisingly mellow.

Holmes, the former start-up executive whose downfall has been retold in a documentary, book and podcast, faces up to 20 years in prison in a case that many see as comeuppance for the wrongs of Silicon Valley.

Court proceedings in San Jose began last month with feverish media coverage, as reporters lined up before dawn to secure a seat in the courtroom and a man who said he was a bystander turned out to be related to Holmes. But the trial — now entering its sixth week of at least 16 — has quickly settled into, well, a trial.

The day-to-day events are mostly procedural, technical and sometimes dull, my colleagues Erin Woo and Erin Griffith write in a new article about what it’s like inside the courtroom. (Apparently Holmes is easy to draw because she rarely moves, a courtroom artist revealed in the piece.)

I caught up with Woo and Griffith, who told me what has struck them about the trial so far and what they’ll be paying attention to going forward.

The jury seems to be the biggest threat to the case staying on track. The trial began with 17 jurors, including five alternates. But we’re less than halfway through, and only three alternates remain.

In the first week, a juror was dismissed after learning that her employer would not compensate her for the time away. Then last week, a juror was sent home after she said her Buddhist faith made her uncomfortable with the idea of punishing Holmes. Her replacement said she did not speak English well, though the judge did not allow her to leave.

“I think a few of us panicked that the whole thing was about to unravel last week,” Griffith told me. “It was hard enough to find 17 people who had never heard of Theranos or Elizabeth Holmes and could set aside three months of their lives for this.”

The jurors also have to be protected from any news coverage of the trial so they remain unbiased. The judge begins and ends each court session by asking whether they have recently heard about Holmes or Theranos.

And there’s the pandemic to worry about — a day of testimony was canceled early in the trial because a juror had a Covid-19 exposure. If the number of jurors drops below 12, there could be a mistrial, a major setback for prosecutors given that the trial has already been delayed repeatedly.

Much of what witnesses have been questioned about hasn’t always been easy to follow. Words like “immunoassays” and abbreviations like H.C.G. (a hormone test) are often presented with no explanation, Woo said.

“Something that I didn’t expect is how much of the testimony deals with very complicated scientific issues, and how little it feels those issues are spelled out for the jury — who were selected at least in part because of their unfamiliarity with Theranos and the biotech industry,” Woo told me. “I’m very interested to see what they get out of this.”

The prosecution is currently presenting its case, after which the defense will begin. Holmes’s lawyers are expected to argue that she was manipulated by Sunny Balwani, her ex-partner and ex-boyfriend.

Holmes is on the list of potential witnesses, though we don’t know if she’s going to testify. Reporters don’t get a heads-up as to who’s on the schedule for the day, and weren’t warned even when former Defense Secretary James Mattis was called to the stand a few weeks ago.

“Every new witness is a bit of a surprise. You hear whispers and furious typing spread like a wave across the room as the reporters relay the news to their editors or Twitter,” Griffith told me. “The moment they called General Mattis was the closest thing to a dramatic movie courtroom moment so far. I actually let out a tiny gasp.”
I find some of this unbelievable. Well that's the wrong word: of course I believe it, but it seems to make so little sense.

They picked a jury of 12 plus five alternates. It's going to be a long trial so it make sense to have a decent set of subs in case of illness etc.

One jury member is dismissed because her employer will not compensate her for three months off work. I understand how for some small businesses it might be impossible for the employer to bear the cost of an employee who cannot work, but that sounds like a problem with a solution. Public compensation would seem to be reasonable, obviously supported by some evidence of job status, salary etc.

Then someone pleads Buddhism. Do they not have trials and punishment in Buddhist countries? Of course they do; and anyway why did that not come up during jury selection if it's real?

Then someone apparently does not speak English well. Really? That did not make it into the considerations for jury selection?

Finally one of the reporters said "It was hard enough to find 17 people who had never heard of Theranos or Elizabeth Holmes" - she might have been exaggerating a little but wouldn't it make sense to choose jurors from the 75% (WAG) of the population who have read something about Theranos and Ms Holmes?

This trial is going to depend to some extent on some technical stuff both to do with biotech and the financial aspects of what is and what is not permissible in a startup. I'm all for the defendant getting a fair trial: but don't we, the taxpayers (OK I don't pay taxes to California) also deserve a fair trial? I think based on what I have read and what I know about the industry that she is guilty as hell and she and her lover boy should be locked up until they are old - but I also think that I could serve on a jury and make a real determination as to whether the prosecutors have proved their case. (FWIW I thought OJ Simpson was responsible for the murders of Brown and Goldman but I also thought that the cops made a pig's breakfast of the evidence and the prosecutors were almost useless and based on the accounts of evidence I read I hope I would have voted Not Guilty.)

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Re: The Theranos trial

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“I think a few of us panicked that the whole thing was about to unravel last week,” Griffith told me. “It was hard enough to find 17 people who had never heard of Theranos or Elizabeth Holmes and could set aside three months of their lives for this.”
Should have asked me.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Sue U
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Re: The Theranos trial

Post by Sue U »

XKA:

I've picked a few juries in my time, so let me try to address your questions.
ex-khobar Andy wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:32 am
I find some of this unbelievable. Well that's the wrong word: of course I believe it, but it seems to make so little sense.

They picked a jury of 12 plus five alternates. It's going to be a long trial so it make sense to have a decent set of subs in case of illness etc.

One jury member is dismissed because her employer will not compensate her for three months off work. I understand how for some small businesses it might be impossible for the employer to bear the cost of an employee who cannot work, but that sounds like a problem with a solution. Public compensation would seem to be reasonable, obviously supported by some evidence of job status, salary etc.
Jurors do get paid by the state for their service, but it's a) not much and 2) all at the same uniform rate -- because they're all doing the same job (one juror's service is not more valuable than another's simply because they may have different wages in other employment). In federal courts jurors get $50/day and can get $60/day for a particularly long trial. State courts pay a LOT less: CA pays $15/day plus mileage; NJ pays $5/day and covers your parking at the courthouse. Jury duty is, well, your duty as a citizen and member of the community.
ex-khobar Andy wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:32 am
Then someone pleads Buddhism. Do they not have trials and punishment in Buddhist countries? Of course they do; and anyway why did that not come up during jury selection if it's real?
Ordinarily, "religious objections" to jury service do come up in preliminary disqualifications before anyone is actually selected. Usually it's Christians taking very literally and out-of-context the Biblical injunction to "judge not, lest ye be judged." But as a practical matter, you don't want people on your jury who don't want to be there, particularly if they actively resent it. It just does not make for a good juror.
ex-khobar Andy wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:32 am
Then someone apparently does not speak English well. Really? That did not make it into the considerations for jury selection?[
Again, this is something that usually comes up before a juror even gets to the courthouse; for both federal and state court jury service in my jurisdiction, prospective jurors who might be called in for the "pool" have to fill out a questionnaire, one of the questions being whether you have a knowledge of English sufficient to hear and understand evidence and argument at trial. Anyone who answers "no" is out of the pool. Sometimes people think their English, or hearing, or eyesight or whatever is better than it is, and only find out otherwise once proceedings have begun.
ex-khobar Andy wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:32 am
Finally one of the reporters said "It was hard enough to find 17 people who had never heard of Theranos or Elizabeth Holmes" - she might have been exaggerating a little but wouldn't it make sense to choose jurors from the 75% (WAG) of the population who have read something about Theranos and Ms Holmes?
This "choose only ignorant jurors" thing is a myth. The actual question is whether anything you may have heard or seen has colored your view of the case, and whether you could be fair and impartial in rendering a verdict. Moreover, as a practical matter jurors will not remain ignorant; it is a given that despite the judge's admonishments, literally the first thing every juror does after selection is go home and google the case, the parties and the lawyers. It's terrible, but that's where we live now.
ex-khobar Andy wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:32 am
This trial is going to depend to some extent on some technical stuff both to do with biotech and the financial aspects of what is and what is not permissible in a startup. I'm all for the defendant getting a fair trial: but don't we, the taxpayers (OK I don't pay taxes to California) also deserve a fair trial? I think based on what I have read and what I know about the industry that she is guilty as hell and she and her lover boy should be locked up until they are old - but I also think that I could serve on a jury and make a real determination as to whether the prosecutors have proved their case. (FWIW I thought OJ Simpson was responsible for the murders of Brown and Goldman but I also thought that the cops made a pig's breakfast of the evidence and the prosecutors were almost useless and based on the accounts of evidence I read I hope I would have voted Not Guilty.)
So you want "a fair trial" based on what you already "know" about the case from the media, regardless of whether those reports are actually true, regardless of whether they are relevant to the actual charges brought, and regardless of what the "other side" of the story might be, but you're willing to listen to see if the defendant can change your mind? What is "fair" about making a defendant -- who I remind you, is presumed innocent -- fight an uphill battle to disprove out-of-court stories from god knows where in an effort to affirmatively prove innocence, when it is the state that has the burden to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt based solely on facts as found at trial? Sounds more than a bit like stacking the deck to me.
GAH!

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Re: The Theranos trial

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Sometimes it's difficult to know who to root for. Apparently Theranos founder and alleged conwoman extraordinaire Elizabeth Holmes allegedly conned alleged ex-Education Secretary alleged Betsy alleged DeVos and her alleged family investment firm out of an alleged $100 million in order to fund her nonsensical company. According to the alleged Ms DeVos's investment guru Lynn Peterson (I think I've covered all the legal bases but someone here will tell me if I missed anything)
Peterson also acknowledged that the DeVos family investment firm never hired regulatory experts, counsel, or medical experts in the due diligence process, explaining that "we didn't think we needed it."
https://www.salon.com/2021/10/27/theran ... 0-million/

When faced with the eternal conflict between criminality and stupidity (or cupidity) it's hard to pick sides.

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Sue U
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Re: The Theranos trial

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This may be the rare case where both should and could lose.
GAH!

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Re: The Theranos trial

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I don’t feel a moment’s sympathy for all the arrogant wealthy fools who got suckered by Elizabeth Holmes. Especially funny to me is the story of how George Schultz estranged from his own grandson when the kid brought him the truth of the fraud that was Theranos and Schultz chose his lust for that pretty young blonde con over his own flesh and blood. Idiot men ruled by their penises unto the grave, deserve every bit of shame and humiliation their hoodwinking heaps on them.

My only sympathy is for the misdiagnosed patients who suffered thanks to that vile cunt’s greed and narcissism. I hope she gets years at Club Fed but I predict some penises on the jury will make sure that doesn’t happen.
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Re: The Theranos trial

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Club Fed? Personally, I hope she gets years hard time; I don't have lot of sympathy for the victims of her con, but then that's pretty much the way of most con games. As PT Barnum said, you can't cheat an honest man.

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Re: The Theranos trial

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Which is quite incorrect: honest people are EASY to con.
Last edited by Jarlaxle on Fri Oct 29, 2021 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Theranos trial

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Jarlaxle wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 12:09 am
Which is quite incorrect: honestpeople are EASY to con.
No, gullible people are easy to con. People who easily trust other people, and want the something that sounds too good to be true that the con is offering.

The quote ‘you can’t cheat an honest man’ comes from the notion that a truly honest person doesn’t expect to get something for nothing, knows that something that sounds too good to be true IS too good to be true/honest.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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Re: The Theranos trial

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The quote ‘you can’t cheat an honest man’from the notion that a truly honest person doesn’t expect to get something for nothing, knows that something that sounds too good to be true IS too good to be true/honest.
That's exactly it; an honest man won't help bring funds illegally into the country or do many of the other dishonest things that are involved in most, if not all, cons. Here, people who should have known better were not willing to even consider how they could receive the returns they were expecting (and if they did realize that something was amiss, they weren't going to make waves until they unloaded their shares on someone else).

I do think many times intelligent people are easier to con, because they think they deserve the returns because they are smart enough to seize the opportunity, law and ethics be damned.

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Re: The Theranos trial

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Big RR wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:22 pm

I do think many times intelligent people are easier to con, because they think they deserve the returns because they are smart enough to seize the opportunity, law and ethics be damned.
Interestingly, research shows that for the same reason intelligent people - even above average intelligent people- are more susceptible to cults and conspiracy theories, because their ego is inflated by the notion that they understand/see something that other people don’t understand/see.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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Re: The Theranos trial

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When it comes to cults, I think that's part of the reason; the other is that intelligent, and often very intelligent, people look for the answers to the bigger questions that they think lesser minds cannot even comprehend. Cults play on this and provide answers. I once had a friend who was a Moonie for a while, and it was this search for the meaning of existence, etc. that drew him to it. Once he was in, he didn't realize how asinine the answers were, because he couldn't comprehend that someone as smart as him could be fooled (that was a major block to his leaving as well).

Years ago I saw a Broadway play called "Good" that showed how an idealistic, intelligent young man was recruited into the SS during WW@ by playing to his intelligence and his vanity ("of course we're not saying the books we are burning are bad--just that the masses cannot appreciate them. We do keep copies for ourselves because we understand them and their shortcomings)." It was pretty scary; he was ultimately convinced that he was doing "good".

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Re: The Theranos trial

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Jarlaxle wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 12:09 am
Which is quite incorrect: honest people are EASY to con.
True. "The amazing Randi" has pointed out that some of the easiest people to con are physicists because physicists are used to people telling the truth and hence vulnerable to deliberate deceit.

yrs,
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Re: The Theranos trial

Post by rubato »

I think it is harder to cheat someone wo is genuinely humble and honest about their knowledge and abilities which is, after all, a kind of honesty.

But if it wat up to me I would imbue the understanding that anyone can be lied to and anyone can be conned to everyone.

Although in this case I knew she was a con from the beginning and it appears that nearly everyone in the analytical chemistry community knew it too.

yrs,
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Big RR
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Re: The Theranos trial

Post by Big RR »

rubato wrote:
Sun Oct 31, 2021 6:00 am
Jarlaxle wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 12:09 am
Which is quite incorrect: honest people are EASY to con.
True. "The amazing Randi" has pointed out that some of the easiest people to con are physicists because physicists are used to people telling the truth and hence vulnerable to deliberate deceit.

yrs,
rubato
Personally, I think this comes from the fact that they are physicists and think they can set up experiments to examine the cons; however, they will not admit that they know little of how magicians (and others who seek to con people) perform their acts. As an amateur magician (one of my hobbies) I can tell you that the tricks that look to be the most complicated are often the simplest, and that an audience can be easily misdirected (One need only to watch one of the episodes of the masked magicians exposing tricks to see this). Knowing how the physicists look at situations makes it far easier for them to be conned, much as Houdini could con the police in his escapes.

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Re: The Theranos trial

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Big RR wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:49 pm
... an audience can be easily misdirected ...
Ain't that the truth!!   Click this link to see a video of one magician using the ultimate in misdirection as she performs a very simple illusion (you'll recognize it immediately) FIVE TIMES in a row, successfully and hilariously breaking the unofficial magician's rule that one should never repeat a trick for the same audience.
Image
-"BB"-
Yes, I suppose I could agree with you ... but then we'd both be wrong, wouldn't we?

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Re: The Theranos trial

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Saw that performed live on stage, she's a hoot.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Re: The Theranos trial

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Shorely, "hooters"?
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Re: The Theranos trial

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As soon as that woman in the video began stripping I was able to correctly guess twat was going to happen.

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Re: The Theranos trial

Post by rubato »

What is striking about the Theranos board is that none of them are physical scientists in a field where physical science is everything. They were doddards like Schultz who lacked the wit to ask even one cogent question about her "technology". She recruited people with a lot of public cachet and no critical thinking on the subject.

She was a con driven by ego and deserves to go to prison for a good long hitch. Having her child raised by a proven liar is worse than being raised by a foster family.

yrs,
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