School's out (yet again.)

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BoSoxGal
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Re: School's out (yet again.)

Post by BoSoxGal »

Gob wrote:
Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:09 am
A man has been jailed for 21 years and his partner for a minimum of 29 years over the torture and killing of his six-year-old son, Arthur Labinjo-Hughes.

Emma Tustin, 32, murdered the boy by causing a fatal head injury at her home in Solihull on 16 June last year.

She photographed him lying on the floor, sending the image to his father Thomas Hughes, 29.

Hughes was convicted of the boy's manslaughter.

Sentencing, Justice Mark Wall QC told Coventry Crown Court the case was "one of the most distressing and disturbing" he had ever dealt with.

He said neither defendant had shown any remorse and their behaviour had been "spiteful and sadistic".

One of the most troubling aspects, he added, was that Tustin's own two children "lived a perfectly happy life in that house" just yards from where Arthur was subjected to unthinkable abuse.

The trial heard Arthur had been poisoned with salt, subjected to regular beatings, denied food and drink and made to stand for hours alone in the hallway.

Jurors were told Tustin carried out a fatal assault by violently shaking the schoolboy and repeatedly banging his head on a hard surface, and while Hughes was not present then, he was culpable in the death as he "encouraged" violence against his son and dealt out beatings.

The judge told the pair "the cruel and inhuman treatment of Arthur was a deliberate decision by you to brush off his cries for help as naughtiness".

He said they had "dehumanised" the boy, adding: "The less human he seemed to be, the more freedom you had to abuse him."
That is such a horrific case and I would gladly kill that woman with my bare hands if given the opportunity- seriously. She is fucking evil.

The nanny cam video of that poor child, crying ‘nobody loves me, nobody is going to feed me’ as he starved in a room locked away from the rest of the family, has haunted me for weeks. There is nothing that could happen to that woman in prison that would be too cruel or more than she deserves.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

MGMcAnick
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Re: School's out (yet again.)

Post by MGMcAnick »

I'm around a lot of teens, some from less than perfect circumstances and in foster care.

I have always figured that once a kid hits mid-teens, parents have little control over what that kid will do. Of course mine all made good choices for the most part, and turned out well.

But for Pete's sake don't buy your emotionally disturbed kid a gun. They had to know the kid had issues. The school even asked them to pull him out THAT DAY.
A friend of Doc's, one of only two B-29 bombers still flying.

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Crackpot
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Re: School's out (yet again.)

Post by Crackpot »

That’s why there are charges in this case it seems the parents were both ignoring warning signs while actively encouraging dangerous behavior.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: School's out (yet again.)

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Even IF they could argue they didn’t notice anything going on with him (they’d have to have been ignoring his social media entirely), they were shown a disturbing picture and statements from him that very morning and they failed to tell the school he had just been given a firearm and been taught to use it/practiced with it THAT WEEKEND. They failed to tell the school that most critical information, and they refused to take him home for a cooling off as the school requested. Had the school known about the recently purchased firearm, I cannot believe they would have allowed him back to class without at least checking his backpack. This was a preventable tragedy and the key to preventing it was entirely within the power of Mr. and Mrs. Crumbley. I hope this prosecution is successful and they go to prison.

I am sending a real life, old school handwritten thank you card to Karen McDonald to laud her for her courage. I’m going to keep her in my prayers (such as they are) and hope that she nor her family will be targets of Michigan’s notoriously violent antigovernment militia movement members.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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Gob
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Re: School's out (yet again.)

Post by Gob »

Dear god, who let them breed?

Image

A Kentucky congressman caused widespread outrage after the Republican posted a Christmas photo that showed him and seven members of his family brandishing large assault rifles, just days after a high school massacre in Michigan.

Rep. Thomas Massie tweeted the photo of him, his wife and their five kids hoisting assault rifles in front of a Christmas tree on Saturday.

'Merry Christmas!,' Massie captioned the photo, alongside a Christmas tree emoji.

'PS. (SIC) Santa, please bring ammo,' he added, followed by a gift emoji.

Massie's photo, which accrued 31.4K likes, 4,826 retweets and 17.7K quote tweets within five hours of being posted, was criticized as being particularly tone deaf in the wake of yet another deadly high-profile school shooting, where four students were killed and seven people were injured, including a teacher.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Re: School's out (yet again.)

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Sorry about this turd: even by Kentucky standards he is beyond it. If you read his Wikipedia entry he's actually a pretty smart guy - MIT grad.

In 2013 the Undetectable Firearms Act (initially 1988) came up for renewal. That's the one which bans plastic guns which do not show up on X-rays and metal detectors. Even the NRA supported it. That bears repeating. EVEN THE NRA SUPPORTED IT. It passed Congress with one vote against. Guess who.

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Re: School's out (yet again.)

Post by Bicycle Bill »

Gob wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 11:05 am
Dear god, who let them breed?

Image

A Kentucky congressman caused widespread outrage after the Republican posted a Christmas photo that showed him and seven members of his family brandishing large assault rifles, just days after a high school massacre in Michigan.

Rep. Thomas Massie tweeted the photo of him, his wife and their five kids hoisting assault rifles in front of a Christmas tree on Saturday.

'Merry Christmas!,' Massie captioned the photo, alongside a Christmas tree emoji.

'PS. (SIC) Santa, please bring ammo,' he added, followed by a gift emoji.

Massie's photo, which accrued 31.4K likes, 4,826 retweets and 17.7K quote tweets within five hours of being posted, was criticized as being particularly tone deaf in the wake of yet another deadly high-profile school shooting, where four students were killed and seven people were injured, including a teacher.
I will give them credit for at least being photographed to show their fingers are very conspicuously AWAY from the triggers.
I guess this is supposed to indicate that they are very principled and upstanding gun owners handling their weapons in a safe and responsible manner — which, of course, makes ALL the difference.
Image
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Gob
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Re: School's out (yet again.)

Post by Gob »

If you're so fearful of your fellow man, or living in a place where you think those arms are needed, what quality of life do you have?
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Re: School's out (yet again.)

Post by Big RR »

I don' think it is always a constant fear; I have a friend who, as he has gotten older, honestly believes that a big collapse of government/order/whatever is coming, and that, afterwards, we will be in the position of having to defend ourselves from gangs of marauders (like in the old 50s/60s atomic bomb movies). He's not a hard core survivalist, but he has acquired a number of rifles and handguns (legally) and has taken a number of courses to learn how to safely handle and use them; he also goes to the range fairly regularly and enjoys target shooting. He's not expecting anyone to invade his home or attack him right now (although he does say he can protect himself if that happens), but he staying ready for the worst.

In some ways this is akin to the guy who takes karate to defend himself (and develops a hobby around it), but in another way it is a fairly common fear/concern in our modern society. I still recall the duck and cover drills in school when I was as young as 5 or 6, so perhaps we have been programmed to expect it, and some just take it a little further. Despite that fear, my friend does have a pretty good quality of life (and FWIW, I can't say I think outcome he fears i really that unlikely). I guess in his mind he is lighting a candle rather than cursing the darkness.

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Re: School's out (yet again.)

Post by BoSoxGal »

Gob wrote:
Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:31 pm
If you're so fearful of your fellow man, or living in a place where you think those arms are needed, what quality of life do you have?
And what quality of life do the rest of us living here have?

Even though I’m in the safest state in the country vis a vis firearms deaths, I still worry about my niece at school. I got stuck in a traffic jam on the way home from a doctors appointment last week and there were several emergency vehicles headed in the direction of our high school and I was very worried for the time it took for me to determine nothing was going on there. Admittedly it was just a couple of days after the Michigan shooting so I am always worried about copycats following a major incident with media saturation.

I don’t feel comfortable in crowds much at all anymore, and since the advent of social media and after my years in law enforcement, I no longer assume the best of people who own firearms. When I was younger I made the assumption that most were responsible, rational people who could be trusted. Now I see the lunacy evident in so much of the right wing comments online and it worries me very much that the vast majority of the privately owned weaponry in this country is owned by a small percent of citizens some of whom are plain nuts.

Many Americans may not even acknowledge this, but there is definitely a widespread psychological effect from the constant drumbeat of gun violence in this country. A gun violence layer cake that is generously slathered with hatemongering frosting. The climate here is not very conducive to a high quality of life.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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Big RR
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Re: School's out (yet again.)

Post by Big RR »

BSG--for me it's not just firearms, I don't trust people generally. Growing up in NYC, I was always taught to watch out for other people; one of the earliest things my father taught me was never stand on the edge of the subway platform because people may push you into the path of the rain (often I'd stand behind a pillar so I couldn't be shoved when the train came (I still do this unconsciously, and note a number of others do as well). The recent rash of people being shoved on the tracks brought this back to me. FWIW, I fear that sort of attack far more than attack by an armed person, because I have come across unarmed (firearms, many still had knives or razors, etc.) aggressive person much more (of course in other regions of the country this may well be different).
Last edited by Big RR on Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: School's out (yet again.)

Post by Econoline »

Sandy Hook.jpg
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Re: School's out (yet again.)

Post by Burning Petard »

I agree with BSG's post way up there, but the law seems to have very flexible standards of responsibility. The shooter is to be tried as an adult, and the adults parents are to be prosecuted for allowing a child access to loaded gun. Why is the shooter an adult in one courtroom, and a child (minor, infant) in another courtroom?

Was this a 'straw purchase' Can a 15 year-old legally possess a pistol in Michigan?

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Re: School's out (yet again.)

Post by Big RR »

BP--I'm not sure about the law in Michigan, but many negligent storage/failure to secure firearm laws will apply if anyone, juvenile or adult, gets access to the weapon which is not properly secured.

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Re: School's out (yet again.)

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A picture is emerging of neglectful parents, who left 8 year old Ethan home alone while they went out bar hopping. There is also video of the kid taking a header in the kitchen at work (!) which mom (of the year) blamed on him not eating all day. The video appears to be much more than empty tummy lightheadedness and $10 says mommy and daddy never took the kid who just passed out hitting his head on a cabinet and ending up smack on a tile floor for any kind of evaluation at the urgent care. Older half brother who worked at the same place boasted to the boss that he got the marijuana she caught him smoking on the job from his parents - unclear if it was boosted from them, or freely given.

I could tell stories all day long for at least a few weeks of the horror show parenting I’ve seen in my years in the system. Nothing gets me guffawing more than when I see folks on social media waxing nostalgic about the special magic that happens once spawning has occurred that allegedly makes a fertile Homo sapiens into a special loving creature called a ‘parent’ - Bwahahaha!! Ha! HA!!

Mark my words, while the debate around this case will be couched in 2A rhetoric, the real terror taking hold in the hearts of American parents across the political spectrum will be the notion that their parenting will be held to account via the criminal justice system. People are already freaking out in forums and comments sections. Two very scary notions: kids can be entirely unpredictable, just like adults - you certainly don’t always get what you thought you were putting together. Also, a great many ‘parents’ are one degree to another of neglectful narcissistic shitbags.

This could get really ugly if we start holding parents accountable. There already aren’t enough prisons.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

Big RR
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Re: School's out (yet again.)

Post by Big RR »

The difficulty in this is that most people, even caring and intelligent people, do not have the skills and understanding needed for the care of a mentally ill child. While usually seen more in the case of adult "children" who commit horrendous crimes, there are times where parents get into circumstances they cannot deal with, yet the mental health system offers little or no help to them. It's easy to vilify neglectful parents, but there are parents who are at their wits end, and are only left with psychological platitudes. I have seen cases where parents have even been assaulted by their nearly grown children, yet the family courts do little other than to suggest or require outpatient therapy. Sure, people in those circumstances shouldn't have weapons in their houses, but kids can do a lot of damage without firearms (or can get them from friends' houses, etc.) and the parents may still be held liable for some sort of negligent supervision.

Yes, the law provides (or should provide) some "safety valves", but if we're going to hold parents responsible for the actions of their children, our mental health system has to catch up with this. There are many neglectful parents (like these appear to be), but there are also some who a trying the best they can and fighting a losing battle with no relief from the law.

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Re: School's out (yet again.)

Post by BoSoxGal »

I wholeheartedly agree that our mental health resources nationwide are abysmal and we should be pouring oodles of dollars into growing it exponentially. This should include making positive mental health practices a core part of the public school curriculum and mental health screening and counseling widely and easily available from preschool on.

This country would be a much better place to live if we did that - you can’t fix every kind of brokenness, but much of it can at least be well managed. The most broken could be flagged and at very least kept away from the weapons of mass destruction.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Crackpot
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Re: School's out (yet again.)

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That is what seems to be what stands out in this case not only is there evidence of parental negligence but there is evidence of willful and extreme parental negligence.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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Crackpot
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Re: School's out (yet again.)

Post by Crackpot »

Oh and not a lawyer and haven’t looked it up but I believe it would be legal for a 14 year old to own a hunting rifle but not a handgun.

This comes from memory as well as the reluctance of prosecutors of claiming “the parents gave him the gun” instead saying “parents allowed access”. I don’t think they would be as careful of the language if such action was legal.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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Re: School's out (yet again.)

Post by Big RR »

Might depend on the state, but I had friends who grew up in western PA (fairly rural) and they told me they brought their shotguns to chool (I think high school, but I am not sure) and would go hunting after school. The guns were locked in the Janitor closet during school time. Sure, this was in the 60s and things are different now, but I really do think it depends on the area.

This map shows where he ownership is legal and the ages:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... r-shotgun/

A couple of surprises--New England and California have no minimum age, NY has it at 16. I imagine local regulations can tighten this up.

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