Plan B Forum

Should this cop be charged with murder? I know that it was an accident, but other people have been charged with murder for accidents. Remember the female cop in Minnesota who shot a black suspect when she mistook her handgun for her Taser. Then there was the truck driver in Colorado who failed to turn off when the brakes on his truck failed and plowed into stalled cars, killing four. Do you remember that Oprah Winfrey wanted all the cops involved in the shooting that killed a sleeping woman during a no-knock raid in Tennessee charged with murder? Those cops in Tennessee had more justification for their actions than this cop; he wasn't being shot at. Can anyone say double standard?


When will we start charging doctors and lawyers with crimes when their charges are wrongly convicted or die.


LAPD officer ‘shattered’ after mistakenly shooting teen at Burlington Coat Factory (msn.com)

ALos Angeles police officer passionate about improving the relationship between law enforcement and the children in his community has been left “shattered” by the death of a 14-year-old girl, who he mistakenly shot inside a Burlington Coat Factory just ahead of the holidays.

Valentina Orellana-Peralta was trying on Christmas dresses when gunfire erupted inside the North Hollywood store on Dec. 23. The shots were fired by Officer William Jones, who was formally identified by his lawyer in the New York Times on Thursday. He was responding at the time to reports of a man swinging bike locks at women, leaving a least one of them bloody.

Surveillance footage and body-cam video released by authorities show an officer firing three shots in the direction of suspect Daniel Elena-Lopez. Police believe one bullet fatally struck 24-year-old Elena-Lopez while the other pierced through the dressing room wall and hit Orellana-Peralta.

A woman wipes her eye as police officers investigate the scene where two people were struck by gunfire in a shooting at a Burlington store as part of a chain formerly known as Burlington Coat Factory in North Hollywood, Calif., Thursday, Dec. 23, 2021. (Ringo H.W. Chiu/)

“This is something he says that he will be living with every day for the rest of his life. He is trying to figure out a process to keep moving forward when he knows her family can’t,” Jones’ attorney, Leslie Wilcox, told The Mercury News. “He’s just shattered.”
Wilcox added that Jones “was acting the way he was trained” and that it’s been “hard for him to see it as it is being portrayed.”
The California Department of Justice is investigating the shooting inside the Burlington Coat Factory.

Yes.

Murder no. Wrongful death, manslaughter perhaps. Depends on what the local law is.

Accident? What the hell is that? Are you still living in another century, when it was an acceptable defense against many criminal offenses to claim "I was drunk' or 'I'm really sorry, I did not mean to hurt you'? Nobody ever told this cop that bullets can go through the body of the person who's behavior has justified a cop shooting him? Nobody ever told this cop that fired bullets when hitting hard materials deflect in other directions? And if not, is ignorance a defense?

Do you prefer to say this was 'an act of God"? One is responsible for the consequences of their own actions. Period, full stop.

snailgate

Are you asking because the officer is black?

He is responsible for a girl's death and should be charged with manslaughter. Let a jury decide.

Joe Guy wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:02 am

Are you asking because the officer is black?

No, to me the fact that he's black makes no difference but, if he had been white and the girl had been black, that would make a big difference to many people. There would be calls and demands he be prosecuted for murder. But I have a different take; if he was following protocol, then he should be safe whether he was black, white or Hispanic, or anything else. However, the department and city would be on the hook. He should have been armed with a shotgun with low power shot and his handgun. A crowded building is no place for a rifle or carbine.

People should not be responsible for things beyond their control.

Murder requires mens rea, so no it’s not chargeable here - he didn’t even know she was there how could he have intent to kill her? Manslaughter yes if the evidence shows he deviated significantly from training standards and created an unreasonable risk to bystanders. Cops have been charged similarly many times in the past, for killing innocent people in high speed pursuits and shooting bystanders. I’m sure this cop feels terrible, but the man he shot was armed with a metal bicycle lock and yes he was harming victims with it but the cops should have realized that the store was full of customers and collateral damage was very likely if they opened fire - they could have subdued him with a taser.

The poor family had only been in America for a few weeks. Too bad that mom didn’t think to hold her daughter and pray while lying on the floor of that dressing room. I’m not blaming her I just wish that had occurred to them because in all likelihood her daughter would be happily planning her Quinceañera still today.

liberty did you see the story about the father in the Midwest who shot and killed his 16 year old daughter in their garage in the early hours of the morning this last week? He thought it was an intruder and apparently didn’t identify his target before blasting it into the next level of consciousness. Do you think prosecutors should give him a pass for his gross negligence? There’s a good chance they will - far too often prosecutors let parents kill their children without holding them to account, on the theory that their grief is punishment enough. Personally I think that’s a fucked up position and totally disrespects the child’s right to life - but it makes the 2A ammosexuals happy and they do tend to vote in high numbers.

Beau of the Fifth Column has some excellent analysis of this incident.

If you only have the time (or patience) to watch one of these, watch the second one.

"People should not be responsible for things beyond their control."

Sure, but it should be up to a jury to decide what is beyond his control.

This looks to be a text-book example of why and when a Taser should be used rather than a firearm; an experienced social/'psychological worker rather than an armed response.

snailgate

Cops like spray-and-pray. This is why they should probably be required to use only single-action revolvers.