Faint praise . . .

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BoSoxGal
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Re: Faint praise . . .

Post by BoSoxGal »

Sue U wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:06 pm
In the United States, it is almost impossible to defame a public figure.
Amber Heard might like to have a word with you on that point.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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Sue U
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Re: Faint praise . . .

Post by Sue U »

BoSoxGal wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 8:11 pm
Sue U wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 7:06 pm
In the United States, it is almost impossible to defame a public figure.
Amber Heard might like to have a word with you on that point.
Did not follow that case even a little bit. But of course the exception proves the rule.
GAH!

ex-khobar Andy
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Re: Faint praise . . .

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Well it was Oliver Wendell Holmes who first made that trope (worded slightly differently) and although it has been superseded, it is still a useful shorthand for the layperson.

Re bankruptcy and Alex Jones - I see allegations on CNN that $62 million was withdrawn from the assets of his company which has filed for bankruptcy. Is that allowed?
One of the attorneys, Avi Moshenberg, told CNN on Tuesday that the bankruptcy filing made by Free Speech Systems indicated that $62 million in assets had been withdrawn from the company in 2021 and 2022.

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Re: Faint praise . . .

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

We now know the contents of Alex Jones' phone because his attorneys apparently accidentally released the information to the opposing legal team. According to HuffPost:
It happened during a cross-examination, when the plaintiffs’ attorney Mark Bankston accused Jones of lying to the court when he claimed in a deposition that he had previously turned over all documents related to his discussions of the 2012 school shooting, including text messages, as a part of the discovery process.

He hadn’t, but, as Bankston revealed, Jones’ own attorneys ending up accidentally sending over an entire digital copy of Jones’ cellphone, including every text message from the last two years.
So now he is in the shit. My question is: are his attorneys also in perjury hell? My understanding is that legal guys are free to shade the evidence as much as they like in their client's favor - they emphasize this point and gloss over that one - but they are not free to lie. And if their client lies on the stand and they know it are they are guilty of perjury just as much as he is?

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Joe Guy
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Re: Faint praise . . .

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If I didn't know better, I'd think this trial was a hoax....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNFgqd8_78I


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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: Faint praise . . .

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

$4 million - not enough so let's hope the punitive and other bits go way higher
“He made a terrible mistake,” Reynal told jurors, referring to Jones. “That mistake was weaponized by the same political forces that had descended upon Sandy Hook when it happened.”
No squire, he did not make a "mistake". He knowingly lied, concocted a conspiracy theory, and insisted it was "truth"

Might as well call it echoTrumping
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Re: Faint praise . . .

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Agreed. IIUC the punitive can go far higher. There were 26 victims at Sandy Hook and maybe they can all pile on and get $4.1 million each and even for someone with Jones' earning power, $106 mill has to hurt.

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Sue U
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Re: Faint praise . . .

Post by Sue U »

The compensatory damages verdict was disappointing, to say the least. And even if the jury were to award $150 million in punitive damages, Texas has a statute that limits punitive awards to "two times the amount of economic damages plus an amount equal to any noneconomic damages ... not to exceed $750,000." Oh, and the jury cannot be told about this limitation.

If I were plaintiffs' counsel, I'd make a motion for additur (increasing the verdict amount) toot sweet, although it would probably be denied (in most cases it's nearly impossible to override a jury's assessment of damages).

So congratulations I guess to Alex Jones's trial team in this case. Let's see how the next two turn out.
ex-khobar Andy wrote:
Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:44 pm
There were 26 victims at Sandy Hook and maybe they can all pile on and get $4.1 million each and even for someone with Jones' earning power, $106 mill has to hurt.
If they don't have cases in suit by now, they are probably far past any statute of limitations for initiating an action.
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Re: Faint praise . . .

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

So the jury has give $45 mill in punitive damages. Does this mean - per Sue's comment above - the judge will now say "Sorry chaps, no can do, $750,000 max."?

At which all hell will, I hope, break loose. And if Alex Jones is really worth $270 million as some places have suggested, a total of $50 million means he still eats tonight. I want him impoverished. I want him dumpster diving for food. And shelter.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: Faint praise . . .

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Explainer: What's next for conspiracy theorist Alex Jones

Reuters
August 5, 20228:52 PM EDTLast Updated 3 min ago
Alex Jones' trial at the Travis County Courthouse, Austin, Texas
Aug 5 (Reuters) - A jury in Austin, Texas, decided on Friday that U.S. conspiracy theorist Alex Jones must pay the parents of a child killed in the 2012 Sandy Hook massacre $45.2 million in punitive damages for falsely claiming the shooting was a hoax, on top of $4.1 million in compensatory damages. read more

Here are some of the other legal challenges Jones and his company now face.

TEXAS, CONNECTICUT LAWSUITS

Jones faces a separate trial over damages in the same Austin court for defaming the family of another victim of the Sandy Hook Elementary School mass shooting. His lawyer said Friday that the case is on pause due to his company's bankruptcy.

Jones is due to stand trial to decide damages in a different case in Waterbury, Connecticut, after he was found liable by default judgment for defaming families of several Sandy Hook victims with falsehoods about the shooting that killed 20 children and six staff in Newtown, Connecticut.

Jones had called the shooting a hoax by the U.S. government, staged using crisis actors to serve as a pretext for taking away Americans' guns. He has since acknowledged that the massacre was real.

The Connecticut trial, which had been set to begin in September, was put on hold after Jones' company, Free Speech Systems LLC, declared bankruptcy last week. Jones said during a Monday broadcast of his Infowars program that the filing will help the company stay on the air while it appeals.

TEXAS BANKRUPTCY

In the bankruptcy case, Sandy Hook parents told a Houston judge this week that Jones might continue to draw money from Free Speech Systems, the parent company of his far-right Infowars website, while using its bankruptcy case to avoid paying court judgments in the defamation cases.

The families have said Jones took $62 million from Free Speech Systems while burdening it with $65 million in "fabricated" debt owed to PQPR Holdings, a company owned by Jones and his parents. They asked the bankruptcy court not to allow Free Speech Systems to send money to Jones or his companies until they have an opportunity to get to the bottom of Infowars' finances.

POSSIBLE PERJURY CHARGE

A lawyer for the plaintiffs in the Texas trial on Wednesday disclosed that Federico Andino Reynal, a lawyer for Jones, had inadvertently sent him a file containing two years of Jones' text messages, along with trial strategy notes and medical records.

Jones has maintained that he searched his phone for texts about Sandy Hook and never found any. He denied on the witness stand that he had lied, but the disclosure raised the possibility that Jones could be charged with perjury, a crime.

Judge Maya Guerra Gamble on Tuesday admonished Jones for not being truthful during his testimony when he said he was bankrupt and had complied with plaintiffs' requests for information before the trial.

Defense lawyers in Texas said perjury prosecutions are rare, particularly for conduct in a civil case.

ATTORNEY REPERCUSSIONS

The judge in the Connecticut case on Thursday ordered Reynal and another lawyer for Jones to appear for hearings this month on whether they should face sanctions for the unauthorized release of the plaintiffs' medical information, apparently in reference to the disclosure of Jones' records in Texas. Reynal did not immediately respond to a request for comment on the matter.

U.S. CAPITOL ATTACK FALLOUT

The disclosure could also have implications for the inquiry by a U.S. House of Representatives committee into the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol by supporters of former President Donald Trump. Mark Bankston, a lawyer for the parents in the Texas defamation case, said in court on Thursday that the committee asked him to hand over the text records he received.

Jones marched with supporters to the Capitol on the day of the riot, but has not been charged with any criminal wrongdoing in connection with it.
With any luck a Connecticut jury will order a far larger judgment given that the case involves a number of Sandy Hook parents.

I hope the bankruptcy court can do something to prevent him from washing his hands of all the judgment obligations. I hope he has committed fraud on the court and loses any protections he would otherwise be entitled to.

Most of all, I hope there is evidence in his phone text logs that provides the basis for a criminal case to be made against him for seditious conspiracy or some other criminal charge. Alex Jones is a very dangerous man, a Jim Jones on crack who is steering a very large number of Americans toward self destruction - he should be in prison and off the air forever.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Re: Faint praise . . .

Post by MGMcAnick »

Jarlaxle wrote:
Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:05 am
Maybe it's time for the return of debtors prison.

The closest thing I'm aware of is an idiot I know of who has been jailed repeatedly for not paying court ordered child support for at least four kids with three women. He recently announced that he wants to undergo a sex change. I guess that would keep them from having any more.
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Crackpot
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Re: Faint praise . . .

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Alex Jones has been ordered to pay almost 1B
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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Joe Guy
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Re: Faint praise . . .

Post by Joe Guy »

Crackpot wrote:
Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:51 pm
Alex Jones has been ordered to pay almost 1B
I watched as the dollar figures were read in court. I hope he is destroyed by this but the legal wrangling will probably drag out for years..

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Re: Faint praise . . .

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

In some ways I wish the monetary award had been smaller but still devastating to Jones - say $100 million or something like that - but accompanied by the caution - you do anything like that again and we hang you up by the thumbs and increase the award three fold. I think a guy like Alex Jones is MORE dangerous to the republic than, say, the 9/11 hijackers.

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Re: Faint praise . . .

Post by BoSoxGal »

ex-khobar Andy wrote:
Thu Oct 13, 2022 4:56 pm
In some ways I wish the monetary award had been smaller but still devastating to Jones - say $100 million or something like that - but accompanied by the caution - you do anything like that again and we hang you up by the thumbs and increase the award three fold. I think a guy like Alex Jones is MORE dangerous to the republic than, say, the 9/11 hijackers.


https://youtu.be/tE_pxDxQRq4
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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