Plan B Forum

Posted: **Sun Jan 08, 2023 12:03 pm**

The shooting of a teacher in the city of Newport News in Virginia by a six-year-old student should be a red flag for the US, the city’s mayor has said, as the teacher’s condition showed signs of improvement.

The mayor, Phillip Jones, said the condition of the teacher, identified by local media as Abby Zwerner, was “trending in a positive direction” in hospital.

The student, a boy, was taken into police custody after shooting and wounding the teacher with a handgun in a first-grade classroom on Friday at Richneck elementary school. The Newport News police chief, Steve Drew, said the shooting was not accidental and was part of an altercation. No students were injured.

Police on Saturday declined to describe what led to the altercation or any other details about what happened in the classroom, citing the continuing investigation. Jones also declined to reveal details of the shooting, or say how the boy got access to the gun or who owns the weapon.

The teacher was identified by local media as Abby Zwerner.
“This is a red flag for the country,” Jones said. “I do think that after this event, there is going to be a nationwide discussion on how these sorts of things can be prevented.”

George Parker, the superintendent of the Newport News public school district, said the shooting showed how “we need to educate our children and we need to keep them safe”.

He added: “We need the community’s support, continued support, to make sure that guns are not available to youth and I’m sounding like a broken record today, because I continue to reiterate that: that we need to keep the guns out of the hands of our young people.

“I cannot control access to weapons. My teachers cannot control access to weapons … Our students got a lesson in gun violence and what guns can do to disrupt not only an educational environment, but also a family, a community.”

Jones would not say where the boy was being held. “We are ensuring he has all the services that he currently needs right now,” he said.

Posted: **Sun Jan 08, 2023 1:32 pm**

“This is a red flag for the country,” Jones said. “I do think that after this event, there is going to be a nationwide discussion on how these sorts of things can be prevented.”

Poor deluded fool.

Posted: **Sun Jan 08, 2023 2:18 pm**

Prosecutors in this country need to grow a spine and start putting parents and guardians who allow access to firearms in prison for DECADES when it results in an injury or fatality. Fuck the NRA, fuck the 2A law and order constituents, be a public servant and put duty above re-election for pity’s sake!

Posted: **Sun Jan 08, 2023 3:02 pm**

The time has come to stop believing that there is some acceptable level of firearm control that (supposedly) controls a dangerous product while still following the spirit of the 2nd Amendment, and start campaigning for the removal of that Amendment entirely.

And before you say that it can't be done, I refer you to the 21st Amendment, which completely and totally repealed the 18th Amendment (prohibition). If we can acknowledge that we made a mistake with that amendment, we can certainly acknowledge that we have made a mistake in retaining, unchanged, the 2nd Amendment.

Either that or get the Consumer Product Safety Commission to declare guns to be unsafe or dangerous products and ban the sale of them entirely, as they did for lawn darts, Christmas tree tinsel made from lead foil, or those 1970s-era bolo-like toys known as 'Clackers'.

-"BB"-

Posted: **Sun Jan 08, 2023 4:53 pm**

Bicycle Bill wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 08, 2023 3:02 pm
The time has come to stop believing that there is some acceptable level of firearm control that (supposedly) controls a dangerous product while still following the spirit of the 2nd Amendment, and start campaigning for the removal of that Amendment entirely.

Yes, please. Please have every Democrat candidate run on that platform in 2024.

Posted: **Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:33 pm**

Jarlaxle wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 08, 2023 4:53 pm

Bicycle Bill wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 08, 2023 3:02 pm
The time has come to stop believing that there is some acceptable level of firearm control that (supposedly) controls a dangerous product while still following the spirit of the 2nd Amendment, and start campaigning for the removal of that Amendment entirely.
Yes, please. Please have every Democrat candidate run on that platform in 2024.

They wouldn't lose any votes, since the gun-nuts and other people like you weren't likely to be voting for a Democrat anyway.

-"BB"-

Posted: **Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:51 pm**

Jaraxle, calm down. This problem is now clearly under control. In addition to thoughts and prayers, we are also waving red flags.

snailgate

Posted: **Sun Jan 08, 2023 6:09 pm**

Burning Petard wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:51 pm
Jaraxle, calm down. This problem is now clearly under control. In addition to thoughts and prayers, we are also waving red flags.

snailgate

Posted: **Sun Jan 08, 2023 6:13 pm**

Here’s the kind of story that gives folks like Jarl a real hard on:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... e-gun.html

Because of course people should be summarily executed over a property crime, dontcha know. And this kind of widespread attitude is why we will never see 2A repealed.

Posted: **Sun Jan 08, 2023 8:08 pm**

BoSoxGal wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 08, 2023 6:13 pm
Here’s the kind of story that gives folks like Jarl a real hard on:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... e-gun.html

Because of course people should be summarily executed over a property crime, dontcha know. And this kind of widespread attitude is why we will never see 2A repealed.

This sounds like the NY subway and Bernie Goetz (1984) — or the deaths of Haile Kifer and Nicholas Brady in Minnesota (2012) — all over again. It would be interesting to see the images captured by the security cam in the twenty or thirty seconds beyond the point at which the video was halted in the news article.

-"BB"-

Posted: **Mon Jan 09, 2023 12:50 am**

As anti-gun as I am, I'm kind of on the side of the shooter in this one. The other guy was waving a gun around and he, the shooter, was not to know that it was fake. I could probably make the case that additional shots, once the guy was incapacitated, were unnecessary but without knowing the exact circumstances I don't know how you do that.

Posted: **Mon Jan 09, 2023 1:13 am**

Seriously? I think when you’ve shot a guy 8 times, you can kick his gun away and save the execution shot to the head. But when you live in a place that gives you a license to Rambo, might as well Rambo I guess!

Posted: **Mon Jan 09, 2023 3:07 am**

If I were the customer with the real gun, I would have yelled, "Drop the gun or you're dead!" Then the bad guy probably would have shot me in the head with his BB gun. I would have dropped my pistol, fallen to the floor and the man would have gotten away.

But I'd probably get free tacos at that restaurant from then on.

Posted: **Mon Jan 09, 2023 5:08 am**

BoSoxGal wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 08, 2023 6:13 pm
Here’s the kind of story that gives folks like Jarl a real hard on:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... e-gun.html

Because of course people should be summarily executed over a property crime, dontcha know. And this kind of widespread attitude is why we will never see 2A repealed.

I honestly question if you actually read the story and watched the video. If you did, it's crystal clear: the customer did nothing wrong.

Posted: **Mon Jan 09, 2023 7:04 am**

BoSoxGal wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 09, 2023 1:13 am
Seriously? I think when you’ve shot a guy 8 times, you can kick his gun away and save the execution shot to the head. But when you live in a place that gives you a license to Rambo, might as well Rambo I guess!

When I wrote:

I could probably make the case that additional shots, once the guy was incapacitated, were unnecessary but without knowing the exact circumstances I don't know how you do that.

What I meant was:

I could probably make the case that additional shots, once the guy was incapacitated, were unnecessary but without knowing the exact circumstances I don't know how you do that.

I'm sorry if that was unclear.

Posted: **Mon Jan 09, 2023 12:49 pm**

According to the headline in BSG's link, the 'good guy with a gun' fired eight bullets into the thief's back and one 'execution-style' into his head. And just in case you missed that, further into the article it says that

one of the patrons – described by police as either white or Hispanic – produced his own gun and shot the robber. He fired nine times – one of which was in the head – causing him to collapse to the ground.

That's a total of nine rounds, which sounds like he emptied the magazine... and I dare say, if the weapon had held ten, twelve, or more rounds, then I suppose that's how many shots he'd have fired.

This guy's a trigger-happy menace.

-"BB"-

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:52 am**

What this demonstrates is the fruits of a liberal society. When I was a child, there were plenty of guns around, but I would never have taken one to school or shot anyone because I feared my mother. Nowadays, I see parents begging their children to behave. I see children cussing their parents. Now they have no fear of their parents or the law.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:04 pm**

I would never have taken one to school or shot anyone because I feared my mother.

Because you feared your mother? Not because you were taught killing someone was wrong? Damn "liberal" society not wanting to encourage people, including children, to do what is right because it is right, not out of fear.

Posted: **Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:21 pm**

I think in the case of a six year old shooting his teacher, or another case from the last couple of days which was a 12 year old stabbing her 9 year old brother to death, we need to recognize psychopathy does not respond to typical rules of morality - psychopaths don’t perceive the world the same way most people do, and would be more likely to be persuaded to good behavior because they fear a negative outcome for themselves than by appeals to what is right and in the greater good. Most children do respond to appeals to what is right because they have normal brains. The more we learn about neuroscience and psychology the more we will understand the limits of our olden time understandings of human behavior. People aren’t evil or good, they have different kinds of brains and often react to the world according to that and to the traumas they’ve experienced. The key to preventing tragedies with our kids is to stop going the same path that has failed over and over and over again and try a new way. I won’t pretend to have the exact answers, but I do believe that a lot of parents are using toxic parenting practices that can activate psychopathy as well as other disorders in young children who then spend their lives struggling with the fallout in all kinds of ways and that effects us all through the costs of illness and lost productivity. What if we made teaching the tools of positive communication and relationship a core component of public education?

Posted: **Wed Jan 11, 2023 11:42 pm**

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