No interest?

[Gob]

The news here has been full of items on the kid who was beaten to death by the five cops.

No one interested?

[ex-khobar Andy]

It's not that there is no interest - there were certainly reactions to the story here in Louisville (we are one state up from Tennessee where this all took place) but I have not heard of any demonstrations expected - I think it's that we are burned out. It's almost like Ukraine - after the first few months of horror, the daily news from there is no less awful but it's on page 8 now.

California has some of the most stringent gun laws in the US (i.e., it has some of the most lax gun laws in the world) and we have seen three (or is it four? - I lose count) mass shootings in the last couple of weeks. But we are used to it now like the proverbial frog in the proverbial pan of warm water.

One element of the story is different in the same way that some of the recent California killings went against stereotype. The CA victims were (mostly) Asian-heritage as were the elderly assailants. The Tennessee victim was Black as were the cops who beat him. For the most part so far the publicized cop killer stories focused on Black victim and White cop and that racist element is missing from the TN story. So we may be forced to partially abandon the 'racist cop' meme (although the evidence is that there are many) in favor of the 'all coppers are bastards' meme which may be partially accurate. There is something in the police training or 'brotherhood' which promotes this 'I can get away with shit' attitude. Is it any different to the stories we get, far too often, about some student forced to drink too much and dying because of some idiotic hazing ritual from a fraternity at his college?

Toxic masculinity knows no racial boundaries.

[Scooter]

The Tennessee victim was Black as were the cops who beat him. For the most part so far the publicized cop killer stories focused on Black victim and White cop and that racist element is missing from the TN story. So we may be forced to partially abandon the 'racist cop' meme...

White slaveholders often used Black overseers to beat and whip their slaves (sometimes to death) in order to keep them in line. That didn't in any way mitigate the racist nature of slavery. Likewise, the fact that Black cops are sometimes the ones who do the dirty work does not disguise the inherently racist nature of policing.

[BoSoxGal]

I started a thread on this story more than once last week but never brought myself to hit submit.

I’m exhausted. I was sick to my stomach before I ever watched the video Friday night and the video just reminded me of hundreds of hours of rageholic cop body/dash cam videos I saw over the years some of which led me to dismiss charges against defendants whose terrorizing by the police was enough punishment, I thought, for the crimes they were alleged to have committed. Prosecutors have that discretion. And toxic rageful bullying violent policing very much does transcend race - I’ve worked in two of the whitest states in America and have seen it perpetrated by white cops on white defendants plenty of times in white places poor people are the ones who take the brunt.

I can’t recall which talking head said this but somebody I listened to this week said that the problem is the attitude that policing is something you DO to a community, instead of WITH a community. It’s been a long while that the attitude predominating in too many police minds has been the US v THEM attitude. Race is huge but it transcends that. I’m tired and sick that I was ever part of a system that I know is very sick and don’t know how to begin to fix. Will this case set the example? It’s good to see rapid acknowledgment and accountability. A handful of bad cops have been bounced. We can’t fix this case by case. Where is the will and the funding for serious policing reform? For serious prosecutorial reform?

My mental health has been taking a nosedive it’s been grey for the entire month almost and my hospice patient of the last 16 months is now actively dying which is good for her but sad just the same and I’ve hit a wall with watching news and engaging with the world in that way. I’m frizzled to a crispy crunchy burnt end. I have no more interest in mass shootings, family annihilations, corrupt lying politicians, or police brutality. I’m so sick of all of it.

[Methuselah]

What the Memphis incident demonstrates is that adding Black men to police forces will not solve the police transgressions against Black men problem. As Memphis major political group is Blacks, this is one place that should be able to demonstrate no Black prejudice.
The one good thing that was demonstrated is that a woman police chief (who happens to be Black) promptly kicked out the Black cops who committed the crime. These types of incidents usually go into endless litigations which lead to no action. More female cops may be the remedy needed here. They don't have to demonstrate masculinity.

[Jarlaxle]

The Memphis police department needs to be purged. Shit-can EVERYONE and start over. The murderers should be nailed to crosses and left until their bones fall apart.

[Gob]

White slaveholders often used Black overseers to beat and whip their slaves (sometimes to death) in order to keep them in line. That didn't in any way mitigate the racist nature of slavery. Likewise, the fact that Black cops are sometimes the ones who do the dirty work does not disguise the inherently racist nature of policing.

Ok, so blame whitey, right?

[Scooter]

Policing in large parts of the U.S. was modelled on slave catching, and later, when chattel slavery was ended, was predicated on filling prisons with as many Black people as possible so as to continue to use them legally as slave labour. Should we be surprised that policing continues to carry that taint?

[Burning Petard]

Jaraxle, nice idea, difficult to execute, even partially. Remember "Defund the Police"? How do you hire them? How do you train them? It is much like the President of the United States, anyone who actually wants the job should therefore be disqualified.

Although I have read some stuff that the Denver Police Department is making serious progress on complete change of their institutional culture.

snailgate

[Gob]

Policing in large parts of the U.S. was modelled on slave catching, and later, when chattel slavery was ended, was predicated on filling prisons with as many Black people as possible so as to continue to use them legally as slave labour. Should we be surprised that policing continues to carry that taint?

So, blame whitey, right?

Aren't you being rather racist, intimating that these poor black cops were so under the control, (mind control,) of white persons, (unknown,) that they had no option but to kick this kid to death?. Aren't you portraying them as mindless zombies, with no personal agency or choice?

[Sue U]

So, blame whitey, right?

Aren't you being rather racist, intimating that these poor black cops were so under the control, (mind control,) of white persons, (unknown,) that they had no option but to kick this kid to death?. Aren't you portraying them as mindless zombies, with no personal agency or choice?

Don't be a dick. Just because the cops are black doesn't mean that they haven't bought into the underlying biases inherent in American policing (I blame Hill Street Blues), and overt racism isn't the only factor making cop culture particularly dangerous to minorities. To a very significant degree, cops are just another street gang, although one heavily armed at taxpayer expense and given license to do violence largely with impunity.

[Econoline]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cjw_-uGHTkY

[Gob]

Don't be a dick. Just because the cops are black doesn't mean that they haven't bought into the underlying biases inherent in American policing (I blame Hill Street Blues), and overt racism isn't the only factor making cop culture particularly dangerous to minorities. To a very significant degree, cops are just another street gang, although one heavily armed at taxpayer expense and given license to do violence largely with impunity.

So these black cops are being racist against a black kid, because TV and gang culture forced them into kicking him to death? They had no personal choice, morals or control in the matter. So you're accusing them of being mindless drones controlled by external influences.

[Burning Petard]

OK Econonoline, please explain to me what you intended with this clip above.

All I get from it is that Racism can be monetized. Some body with money thought they can make more money by a carefully scripted drama presenting racism'; that racism in American can be entertaining and profitable.

snailgate

[Econoline]

Two encounters, five years apart, between a Black boy and a Black police officer. Whatever the underlying causes, this phenomenon was known and dramatized in this film more than 30 years ago.

From Wikipedia:

Boyz n the Hood is a 1991 American coming-of-age hood film written and directed by John Singleton in his feature directorial debut. It stars Cuba Gooding Jr., Morris Chestnut, Ice Cube, Laurence Fishburne, Nia Long, Regina King, and Angela Bassett. Boyz n the Hood follows Tre Styles (Gooding Jr.), who is sent to live with his father Furious Styles (Fishburne) in South Central Los Angeles, surrounded by the neighborhood's booming gang culture. The film's title is a double entendre: a play on the term boyhood and a reference to the 1987 Eazy-E rap song of the same name, written by Ice Cube.

Singleton initially developed the film as a requirement for application to film school in 1986 and sold the script to Columbia Pictures upon graduation in 1990. During writing, he drew inspiration from his own life and from the lives of people he knew and insisted he direct the project.[...]
Plot
In 1984, ten-year-old Tre Styles lives with his single mother, Reva Devereaux, in Inglewood, California. After Tre gets into a fight at school, his teacher calls Reva and says that although Tre is intelligent, he is immature and lacks respect. Frightened about Tre's future, Reva sends him to live in the Crenshaw neighborhood of South Central with his father, Furious Styles, from whom she hopes Tre will learn life lessons. In Crenshaw, Tre reunites with his childhood friends Darrin "Doughboy" Baker, Doughboy's half-brother Ricky, and their friend Chris. That night, Tre hears Furious shooting at a burglar. Furious calls the LAPD, and two officers arrive an hour later. The white officer is civil, while the black one treats Furious with contempt.[...]

From another source (Columbia Pictures, on YouTube):

BOYZ N THE HOOD is the critically acclaimed story of three friends growing up in a South Central Los Angeles neighborhood. It is a place where harmony co-exists with adversity, especially for three young men growing up there: Doughboy (Ice Cube), an unambitious drug dealer; his brother Ricky (Morris Chestnut), a college-bound teenage father; and Ricky's best friend Tre (Cuba Gooding, Jr.), who aspires to a brighter future beyond "The Hood." In a world where a trip to the store can end in death, the friends have diverse reactions to their bleak surroundings. Tre's resolve is strengthened by a strong father (Larry Fishburne)who keeps him on the right track. But the lessons Tre learns are put to the ultimate test when tragedy strikes close to home, and violence seems the only recourse.

This particular scene seemed quite relevant to the current discussion.

"Somethin' wrong?" "Somethin' wrong, yeah. Just too bad you don't know what it is."

[Burning Petard]

Relevant, but still fiction. One never knows how much in movieland is driven by the almighty dollar. Then again there is much scholarship advocating that fiction is the best way to communicate truth.

snailgate.

[Econoline]

[...]During writing, he [Writer/director John Singleton] drew inspiration from his own life and from the lives of people he knew[...]

[liberty]

The Shit Head is a lying piece of crap; slaveholders did not often use black overseers. Most feared blacks too much to give them any power, especially after the 1805 black Haitian government exterminated the white French population of Haiti. It did exist but was not typical.

And that crap is irrelevant anyway. The Shit Head is saying that these black policemen were programmed to do what they did because white slaveholders used black overseers over 100 years ago, bull shit. People are not dogs or robots; they are not genetically programmed to act in any particular way; they can choose what they are and what they do.

[Econoline]

Richard Pryor commented on this phenomenon back in 1971:

"In my neighborhood, cops were dangerous, because we had, like, 'I Spy' cops. You know, white cop and Black cop worked together. And the Black cop had to do more shit to keep his job. He had to whoop more niggas than the white cop." Pryor would then act as the Black cop kicking a Black civilian: "I ain't gonna lose my pension, nigga."

[Scooter]

slaveholders did not often use black overseers

Yet one more instance when a foreigner has to correct the village idiot's "knowledge" of his own country's history.

Conventional wisdom about the Old South excludes slaves from the ranks of plantation overseers. However, a preference for restrictive types of evidence and a race-sensitive system for assigning titles in plantation culture raise questions about the accuracy of conventional wisdom. Reexamining conventional scholarship and supplementing it with slave narratives and legal resources suggest that slaves served as overseers more frequently and more competently than previously reported. First, an analysis of both Black and White narratives across the Old South reveals many instances where slaves performed the duties of overseers without carrying that title. Second, drawing on a comparison with the rivalry between Black and White urban workers, an analysis of salary data for White overseers suggests that their competition for work with slaves contributed to other factors that depressed their value to planters. link

So these black cops...had no personal choice, morals or control in the matter. So you're accusing them of being mindless drones controlled by external influences.

Police officers, regardless of race, are subjected to the influence of the racist attitudes and practices that are ingrained in policing, just as the employees of any other organization are influenced by their employer's organizational culture. Black cops are not magically immune to those influences.