Uppity white boy murdered by police

[liberty]

Uppity white boy murdered by police. Does anybody care not SH, for sure
See video below:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/vi ... 75a0&ei=14


Utah mom of recent college grad killed by police claimed to be 'sovereign' citizen
Story by Adam Sabes
3192 Comments
The mother of a recent Utah college graduate who was killed by police during a traffic stop claimed during an April 2022 traffic stop that she was a "sovereign" citizen of the state after being pulled over for having an expired registration, claiming that public roadways are "open to all," according to a lawsuit.

Farmington Police Department officers stopped Chase Allan, 25, on March 1 at around 3:22 p.m. for allegedly driving with an illegitimate license plate. Allan refused to get out of the car, police chief Eric Johnsen said in a statement to Fox News Digital, who said that multiple shots were fired when Allan refused to get out.

[Joe Guy]

I don't know anything about this story, other than what's in your link. The guy probably didn't mention that he had a gun with him. Those "sovereign citizens" are erratic and stupid and some are very dangerous.

[BoSoxGal]

I was stalked and harassed by a sovereign citizen for the entire time I lived in the last little town in Montana before I left - in part because of that experience. He threatened my life repeatedly and was eventually convicted of felony intimidation of public officials for his actions toward me and a few more counts for other public officials he had terrorized over the years.

Sovereign citizens are recognized by the FBI as a domestic terrorist group and the FBI trains law enforcement officers including prosecutors all over the country about the dangers of the sovereign citizen movement, members of which have been responsible for multiple murders of police and other public officials in recent years. Many of the murders happened during the course of traffic stops when sovereign citizens ambushed LEOs with firearms during the interaction.

This young man was intelligent and no doubt had all those facts in his own head when he chose to refuse to comply with police while in possession of a firearm. I struggle to feel sympathy.

[ex-khobar Andy]

If there were fewer guns around then there would be fewer police murders. I am not sanctioning what appears to be an all-too-common police overreaction (yes, 'sovereign citizens' are idiots but thankfully idiocy does not carry the death penalty) but I can understand nervousness approaching an unknown vehicle when there are 400,000,000 weapons in private hands in this country. According to the Chief of Police, they opened fire after they saw him reaching down towards 'what they feared' was a holster or a weapon. 'What they feared' is way too low a standard of proof. I am not suggesting that police have to wait until one of their number is down before opening fire: but fear is not a reason and if the reporting is correct these guys need to be put on leave until the investigation is complete.

I wouldn't have a problem if every cop conducting a traffic stop had a full length bullet proof shield they used to first approach the vehicle. Safer for everyone.

[Burning Petard]

Chase Allen was right--the roadway is open to all. But a car is not a sovereign citizen and she was free to park the car with expired tags on private property and walk on that public road.. It is an old science fiction quote that one should not argue with people with guns--and don't stand next to someone who does. Sorry Andy "I feared for my life" is the standard magic phrase that justifies many cops acting as summary executioners.

On the other hand was it the mother who claimed sovereignty? Or was it the 25 year old? I have no interest in information circulated by something named Adam Sabes who is so crude in their use of written communication



snailgate

[MajGenl.Meade]

On the other hand was it the mother who claimed sovereignty? Or was it the 25 year old? I have no interest in information circulated by something named Adam Sabes who is so crude in their use of written communication

Indeed, it was poorly written. Chase Allen is the young man (is/was). His is/was the "sovereign citizen" lunacy. Nice looking young man - shame for his pathetic anti-Americanism

[BoSoxGal]

BOTH mother and son were sovereign citizens, BOTH had interactions with the police that went badly.

For the record, the police did in fact find an empty holster on his hip/leg and the firearm laying on the floorboards of the vehicle after they shot him up. Those facts seem to suggest that when they saw him, from the driver side window view, reaching for something at his hip - and he had just switched the hand in which he was holding his phone presumably to free the hand closest to his firearm - he was, in fact, going for his gun.

Again, in the last two decades sovereign citizens have murdered IN COLD BLOOD a number of law enforcement officers in encounters JUST LIKE THIS ONE. They have been ambushed in the middle of a traffic/license/registration compliance stop by citizens using firearms inside the vehicle and in ways that suggest the citizens simply had a death wish and to take as many cops with them as possible. The FBI showed a dashcam video of one of these murderous ambushes at a career prosecutor training I attended and it was horrific and bone-chilling. I believe these people are members of a cult but so weren’t the Manson family kids and the mental illness only seems to increase the capacity for cruelty and violence in some such people.

It’s too bad this young man is dead but it is a very different kettle of fish than the typical police overreaction or racial bias infuenced police terrorism. In this case I am inclined to believe the police reacted with appropriate fear and deadly force was more than likely justified. If an investigation suggests otherwise I’ll certainly accept that.

[Bicycle Bill]

Sorry Andy "I feared for my life" is the standard magic phrase that justifies many cops acting as summary executioners.

snailgate

That also works the other way as well.  Isn't that pretty much the same logic/reasoning George Zimmerman used as a defense for shooting Trayvon Martin, or Kyle Rittenhouse used with regard to the three people he shot in Kenosha?  And the courts listened to them, accepted it, and let them go.

-"BB"-

[Joe Guy]

You need to click on "Watch on YouTube" to see the video...

[Bicycle Bill]

I watched the video.   If the kid wanted to play stupid games with the cops, he should have realized that all he was gonna win were stupid prizes — and this nimnul hit the jackpot.

-"BB"-

[Crackpot]

Part of me says overkill (way too many shots fired) but I have no sympathy from the victim.

How the fuck can these Sovereign Citizens not get that the “right to travel” does not equal right to drive.

[Joe Guy]

Also, many of them say they are not subject to the laws of the U.S. while claiming that our Constitution states that they have the right to travel. Apparently, to them, the right to travel means they don't need to be licensed etc to drive a vehicle, which they claim is their personal conveyance that they are legally allowed use to get them "from point A to point B". They say a person only needs a driver's license for commercial purposes.

I've seen many YouTube videos about sovereign citizens. They have quite a following on YouTube. The videos I've watched are recordings in which they are shown doing stupid things and getting arrested most of the time.

[BoSoxGal]

This video depicts the horrific execution of two law enforcement officers which I was shown at an FBI training on sovereign citizens at a national career prosecutor training by NDAA. This video shows a much redacted version without the most horrible details that they showed to the prosecutors, but also has a good overview of the sovereign movement talking points that come up in interactions with law enforcement, and at the end it lists the 30+ officers killed by sovereign and other antigovernment domestic terrorists since the OKC bombing in the 90s. I think it is important context for folks to understand this most recent incident in Nevada - that law enforcement agencies all over the country are training their officers with videos like these and those officers know very well just how lethal these sovereign citizens have been, many times already. The difference between them having a legitimate fear of this gun toting sovereign who refused to acknowledge their lawful authority and cops who cry afraid of black kids behind the wheel is, I hope, obvious to everyone on this board - including liberty, now.



https://youtu.be/d_y-gLm9Hrw

[Bicycle Bill]

That video was from 2010.  I wonder what the death count is up to now.

-"BB"-

[Joe Guy]

I think there are two types of people who call themselves "sovereign citizens" (or may deny being a sovcit but believe in the same thing). Based on what I've seen and read, many, maybe even most of them, are just not too bright and have bought into the idea that you don't need a license, registration or insurance to drive. And they don't learn. They keep getting in trouble for the same violations.

Then there are the violent ones who hate police or any type of authority and are armed. Most of them keep to themselves and live away from the big cities.

[Crackpot]

Most sovereign citizens are living examples of the Dunning-Krueger effect. They assume the little knowledge they have equals expertise which they clearly do not have.

[ex-khobar Andy]

A powerful video. The two assholes who killed the Arkansas cops were themselves killed in the resulting shootout.

Here in Louisville the DoJ has just come out with a report that trashes Louisville PD for years of what can only be called a pattern of abuse of vulnerable citizens. Mainly but by no means all race based - some is sexual abuse with no apparent race element. The PD has paid out more than $4 million in settlements in the last five years - the biggest being $2 million to the relatives of Breonna Taylor, the woman killed in the 'no knock' police invasion at her home on March 13 2020.

There is no doubt that there are way too many cops who are gang bangers in all but name but whether that is 5% or 25%, the great majority do in fact protect and serve.

[BoSoxGal]

Cops were America’s first gang, any proper understanding of history bears that out. My own estimation is that about 25% are the kind of cops we would hope to have in our communities. Another 50% are in some shape or form taking advantage of the badge for financial or other gain and some of that is really gross shit like grooming and sexually exploiting junior explorer cops and other nasty behavior like sexually assaulting female motorists with impunity etc. Then you have the 25% who are truly violent bullies who are just waiting for any excuse to work over or shoot up a suspect, especially one who is the wrong color. For a very long time 95% of cops would not say boo about the various spectrum of bad cop behavior they had knowledge was ongoing. That is slowly changing and it is only that erosion of the blue line that will allow for true reform and rebuilding of trust within communities.

I have such a hard time with my feelings about cops. I want to love them and hail their nobility, but of course I cannot. More than most people I have seen how truly répugnant things are under the covers. Yet I have also worked with some cops whose dedication and integrity made my heart swell, so I know what is possible. So we keep chipping away at the corrosion and hoping underneath we will find enough solid metal upon which to build.

Obviously no matter what the problems with cops, individually or collectively, they should not be slaughtered just for who they are - no more than we want cops doing the same to POC citizens. The video I shared is produced by the Southern Poverty Law Center, an entity famous for championing civil rights and who are always in the corner of people wrongfully harmed by police. But they are also in the corner of police wrongfully harmed by domestic terrorists. There IS common ground for us in these battles - call out the wrong when we see it and don’t BS about it. We all know right from wrong but it sure has been life’s harshest lesson to learn how many people struggle to speak truth to power.

[Econoline]

There is no doubt that there are way too many cops who are gang bangers in all but name but whether that is 5% or 25%, the great majority do in fact protect and serve.

The great majority protect and serve their fellow cops, rather than the general population, if they tacitly condone their coworkers' criminal behavior.

For a very long time 95% of cops would not say boo about the various spectrum of bad cop behavior they had knowledge was ongoing.

Any cop who is willing to ignore "bad cop behavior" is a BAD cop and *NOT* a good cop.

"The words of the prophets are written on the subway walls, and tenement halls..."

[Bicycle Bill]

Cops were America’s first gang, any proper understanding of history bears that out. My own estimation is that about 25% are the kind of cops we would hope to have in our communities. Another 50% are in some shape or form taking advantage of the badge for financial or other gain and some of that is really gross shit like grooming and sexually exploiting junior explorer cops and other nasty behavior like sexually assaulting female motorists with impunity etc. Then you have the 25% who are truly violent bullies who are just waiting for any excuse to work over or shoot up a suspect, especially one who is the wrong color. For a very long time 95% of cops would not say boo about the various spectrum of bad cop behavior they had knowledge was ongoing. That is slowly changing and it is only that erosion of the blue line that will allow for true reform and rebuilding of trust within communities.

I would love to know just which portion of your colon you pulled those percentages from.

-"BB"-