Revenge of the steerage class?

[ex-khobar Andy]

Apparently this was all timed carefully to distract from the Hunter Biden investigation. You couldn't make this up. Senator Marsha Blackburn (R-TN) told us so, so it must be true.

[Bicycle Bill]

The level of 'crazy' that has permeated much of the Republican party reminds me of a Superfund site, like an oil facility or chemical works, where so much toxic material has seeped into the ground over the years that the only way to reclaim the site and make it useful again is to completely remove all the tainted soil — down to bedrock if necessary, haul it away for processing and decontamination, and replace it with clean, unsullied material.

The Republicans are going to have to go through a similar process if they intend to save themselves, or else the rest of the voting public is going to do it for them.

-"BB"-

[BoSoxGal]

Several new articles out over the weekend I won’t post them but US Coast Guard to lead investigations with assist of Canada and UK counterparts into the Titan disaster and I’m wondering WTF? Why? What is there to learn that everybody in the submersibles community didn’t already know and warn about? The primary bad actor is dead anyway, do they plan to criminally prosecute his business partners and go after an undoubtedly already near bankrupt company for doing things that legislators and international agencies hadn’t bothered to regulate against? Seems the thing to do is hit the legislative chambers and get passing some laws, ASAP.

The other thing which hasn’t been discussed in detail and which I’m curious about is why did he have to pursue experimental materials if there are already proven materials and designs in place? Are approved submersibles that much more expensive? I do recall reading or hearing that maybe approved versions have to be smaller so there wouldn’t be as much potential to profit off the tourist market, however, if a good submersible can fit one tourist just charge them 3x the price, no? There were apparently dozens of people signed up to ride Titan or die, surely many of them could have gladly afforded $750k to say they’d gone to Titanic and seen her in person.

It must be about the money and also some kind of twisted personality thing with the builder guy. Yes I know he has a name but he’s already getting enough press.

I’ve been watching Happy Valley, which in addition to being a great police procedural type show is also one of the best written shows I’ve ever seen on the subject of how family makes or breaks one’s life - and both. I’m wondering about Mrs. Titan disaster and her kids, one of whom is a law clerk and recent UofChicago JD grad. Imagine starting life with this kind of thing associated to your family name and in this savage internet age. They have my compassion along with the other victims of Mr. Titanic Ego.

[datsunaholic]

It was about money. He did everything to cut costs. Carbon fiber is lighter, so everything used to handle, transport, and launch the submersible didn't need to be as large and that saved costs.

[BoSoxGal]

Just as an aside, do you suppose this method of suicide causes death faster than the conscious mind can comprehend what’s happening, similar to the submersible implosion?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ne-suicide

[Joe Guy]

Since they were able to perform an autopsy I'd guess that having yourself sucked into a jet engine might not be as dependable as a submersible implosion. Success would depend on the size of the jet engine and whether or not it was running full blast or maybe even how much you damage the engine when you jump in.

I'd go with a defective submersible sub if I were contemplating quickly and unconsciously dying from suicide.

[BoSoxGal]

According to what I’ve found online nobody has ever survived being fully sucked into a jet engine. I found one story about a sailor who survived being sucked into a smaller jet engine because his helmet went in first and damaged the engine and the pilot immediately shut down the engines so he was able to brace himself and not get sucked in completely but again a much smaller jet engine than on a commercial aircraft.

Somebody out there in the world provided this useful animation on YouTube - seems there is not much left for an autopsy but then not too difficult to determine cause of death, I think maybe obliteration would be the right word but the coroner probably indicated blunt force trauma.

[Joe Guy]

If I performed the autopsy on the (animated) guy in the video, I would conclude that he went through a smoothie transition.

[Bicycle Bill]

-"BB"-

[ex-khobar Andy]

It looks as if the manufacturers of this device cut so many corners that they should be liable - but that of course is speculation on my part based on what I have read. Both RCMP and USCG are investigating so I suppose we will see a report in a year or so.

Apparently the passengers all signed a waiver that mentioned the risk of death. But most of us accept that sort of thing every time we buy a power tool or a dishwasher. (I just looked at my dishwasher manual. There are six warnings in the first three pages and the word "Death" appears four times. I can kill myself with an electrical hazard; if I use the wrong chemicals to clean it; and some of the parts are known to the State of California [but not, apparently, to Kentucky] to cause cancer. I have not read my table saw manual for about 35 years - it's that old - but I would be curious to re-read it to see if they assumed that people were less stupid 35 years ago.) I wonder if the sheer prevalence of that sort of warning inures us to them and we tend to ignore real dangers. And PS I am not blaming the lawyers.

[Bicycle Bill]

I have not read my table saw manual for about 35 years - it's that old - but I would be curious to re-read it to see if they assumed that people were less stupid 35 years ago.)

-"BB"-

[Sue U]

Apparently the passengers all signed a waiver that mentioned the risk of death. But most of us accept that sort of thing every time we buy a power tool or a dishwasher. (I just looked at my dishwasher manual. There are six warnings in the first three pages and the word "Death" appears four times. I can kill myself with an electrical hazard; if I use the wrong chemicals to clean it; and some of the parts are known to the State of California [but not, apparently, to Kentucky] to cause cancer. I have not read my table saw manual for about 35 years - it's that old - but I would be curious to re-read it to see if they assumed that people were less stupid 35 years ago.) I wonder if the sheer prevalence of that sort of warning inures us to them and we tend to ignore real dangers. And PS I am not blaming the lawyers.

While waivers of liability are generally held to be enforceable in the U.S., the waiver here could potentially be subject to the laws governing whatever courts might have jurisdiction over the personal injury/wrongful death claim -- e.g., Canada, UK, France, US or Bahamas (which I had read was the designated jurisdiction in the waiver's choice-of-law clause) -- and whether the actual cause of the accident was within the scope of the waiver. I think it is likely in the case of the Titan expedition any waiver would be ruled invalid if the cause of the fatalities is traced to any of the "cut corners" that Stockton Rush admitted to in interviews and whether the passengers knew about them. The fundamental import of a liability waiver is "We have made this activity (skiing, horseback riding, ice skating, trampolining, deep-sea submarining, whatever) as safe as reasonably possible, but nevertheless it still has inherent risks of harm/death, which you accept and won't hold us responsible for." If it is true that OceanGate "cut corners" in safety/design/construction, or ignored signs of materials failure before the event, those are facts and circumstances that may invalidate or fall outside the risks covered by the waiver -- at least in the US. It's an interesting legal question for personal injury practitioners.