Taylor swift perfect litmus test for zero?

[BoSoxGal]

Again, two words: Air Supply

(Though in honesty we could replace those two words with plenty of one and two word combinations over the decades and they’d fit just as well.)

Face facts there are curmudgeonly types on this board who have become the angry old man ‘get off my lawn’ types that they used to laugh at while blasting their newfangled vacuous music 40-50 years ago while cruising the neighborhood.


But this thread certainly brings to focus how very out of touch I have become with popular music. The only radio I ever listen to is NPR or occasionally classic rock riding around with other people. My car radio has been broken for years and I listen to podcasts or my playlist when I drive and same at home or on walks. The other day there was an article on the Globe’s website about a competition heating up in the local drive time talk radio market and I was like WUT? There’s still talk radio? I am SO out of touch.

I might dial up a Taylor Swift playlist while I’m cooking curry today, just to get a sense of what all the hullabaloo is about.

[Jarlaxle]

[Bicycle Bill]

When you've got someone like Jim Steinman providing songs for you, it's hard for you to go wrong.
Besides Meat Loaf and Bonnie Tyler (and Air Supply, as seen above), even Celine Dion, Barbra Streisand, Barry Manilow, and Cher have performed/covered some of his stuff.

-"BB"-

[BoSoxGal]

Ah, the 80s! I have to admit feeling a little nostalgia for how normal all the people look, even the glamorous ones.

That’s one of my favorite things about watching old movies and TV shows - all the natural teeth and boobs and facial quirks and a near total absence of Botox, filler, facelifts, butt and breast implants, and ultra whitened teeth/veneers.

We live in the age of plastics, indeed.

[Big RR]

I think the difference now is that music is marketed to a lot more targeted groups now than ever before; so we have different pop subgenres, each with its own target audience; ditto for country, latin, or any other type. Add to that the fact that each subgenre can have its own radio stations (either broadcast, satellite, or online) and people can listen to what they want and avoid the rest. Having grown up on top 10 AM radio, I slisted to the same thing as everyone else ins school did because that's all there was (unless I chose to listen to easy listening or classical (I don't recall any country, and, while there were stations that played latin music, they were entirely in Spanish language so I rarely listened; FM helped broaden that a bit, but not that much. Now I have a friend who listens to "outlaw" country (whatever that is as compared to regular country or country and western), and I recently have found some 60s folk outlets. There are even "stations" dedicated to particular artists (I even heard one to Swift) so nothing surprises me. It's not just age that separates us, it's the marketing. TV has gone the same way, from a time when we all watched the few shows avaialable, to a time where we can each watch whatever we want.

[Sue U]

I think the difference now is that music is marketed to a lot more targeted groups now than ever before; so we have different pop subgenres, each with its own target audience; ditto for country, latin, or any other type. Add to that the fact that each subgenre can have its own radio stations (either broadcast, satellite, or online) and people can listen to what they want and avoid the rest. Having grown up on top 10 AM radio, I slisted to the same thing as everyone else ins school did because that's all there was (unless I chose to listen to easy listening or classical (I don't recall any country, and, while there were stations that played latin music, they were entirely in Spanish language so I rarely listened; FM helped broaden that a bit, but not that much. Now I have a friend who listens to "outlaw" country (whatever that is as compared to regular country or country and western), and I recently have found some 60s folk outlets. There are even "stations" dedicated to particular artists (I even heard one to Swift) so nothing surprises me. It's not just age that separates us, it's the marketing. TV has gone the same way, from a time when we all watched the few shows avaialable, to a time where we can each watch whatever we want.

And I think that's all ultimately a good thing; the obvious demand for specialized markets broadens diversity in the music biz over all so the industry suits have to pay attention to a wider array of sounds, which then get reflected back on the "mainstream" outlets. Just look at the variety of pop subgenres on the Billboard Hot 100 right now (I'd link to the Radio Songs chart but I see it has recently gone to paid-subscription-only viewing). What I think is really interesting is the rise of Spanish pop in the US mainstream and the variety of styles in that genre alone (compare, e.g., Peso Pluma to Bad Bunny to Grupo Frontera). For those who are curious about music, there is just so much more available today than when we were kids. Back then, you really had to make an effort to search out reggae, afrobeat, cumbia/nortena and south Asian music, today it's all a regular part of the mix, and any style or artist you want to hear more of is available with a couple of taps on your phone.

ETA:

I mean, look at the range of stuff just on the Barbie soundtrack album (Nicki Minaj, Karol G, Billie Eilish, HAIM, Tame Impala, etc.); it's a broad spectrum, and it's nothing if not mass-market.

EATA:

Speaking of pop hits,

[Big RR]

Sue--no argument there; for the most part, I agree it's a good thing, but it is a double edged sword, which is why I raised it in the first place. I do think that it does limit the exposure of many to various genres of music; even when I grew up listening to top 10 radio, I will admit is exposed me to many genres--from folk and ballads to rock to soul (and its subgenres) and R&B, to even country and easy listening. Now anyone who wants to can choose to listen only to what they want--be it a specific genre or even exclusively a specific artist. And, IMHO, that lack of even vicarious exposure is not a good thing. It takes a lot of time and effort to try and get broader exposure, and it is a lot easier to fall into the "I don't like ..." and avoid it.

Sure it's progress in some ways, but a step back in others. I kind of think it's like when recorded music first came into being; before that people either listened to what they could play, or what the orchestras and bands performed--and the performances were varied. Once the recordings came into being, people could choose to listen to a specific genre, or even composer, and became a lot less exposed to other music. Broadcast and movies broadened the exposure, but that is being curtailed by the new technology. Sure, I love being able to listen to classic rock or reggae or whatever anytime I want, but I also admit that there is a lot more music I don't listen to not because I've heard it and choose not to listen, but because it's something I think I won't like. I try to expand the circle of what I listen to, but given time constraints it's easier to continue as I was doing before.

[Econoline]

[MGMcAnick]

I will admit I've never heard any of her music on the radio. (She might be too young to know what one is.)

Don't worry, the radio certainly knows who she is. From waaaaayyyy back in ancient times (January)

I guess you couldn't see my tongue planted firmly in my cheek. My snide comment was brought on by a young nurse I had when I was in the hospital going on three years ago. I had my Radio Shack (Remember them?) shirt pocket radio with me so I could continue to listen to NPR. The heavily tattooed girl asked me what it was. I turned it on for her. She said she'd never seen one. Think about it. I'd guess her age to be early 20s. Her parents could easily be in their early 40s. I don't think my older kids, now in their late 40s (which I find hard to believe) have ever owned a small portable radio. Boom boxes, yes, but they won't fit in your pocket. They also played CDs, and earlier, cassette tapes.

[rubato]

I have never strived in that vinyasa.

How about you, asshole?

Punk bitch wi a punk bitch argument.

[rubato]

I have never strived in that vinyard

How about you, asshole?

Punk bitch wi a punk bitch argument.

[Jarlaxle]

That's gibberish.

[rubato]

So you have never had a hit record either moron ?

Punk and ugly at it. Cornholer.

Go fuck a hay bale you’ll look less stupid.

[Sue U]

I have never strived in that vinyasa.

How about you, asshole?

Punk bitch wi a punk bitch argument.

Are you talking to me? Because I have worked that gig and hard, playing the local club circuit in punk, power pop and parody lounge-act bands. I've written more than a few songs, and some were pretty good, judging from audience reaction. And there were dozens of local bands in Philly who were very very good -- there always are. A couple from my era had some small success (Dead Milkmen, Kenn Kweder, The As, Pretty Poison) but the vast majority you never heard of and never will, because it takes a lot of those very good bands and even some one-hit wonders just to support a music scene, but getting to the top of the pops and staying there is a whole different level of very real talent for hitting all the right buttons with your musical product and creating an ever growing base of loyal fans (along with a considerable amount of luck, especially in getting decent representation).

So God bless Taylor Swift and anyone else who can produce a string of smash-hit pop songs over more than a dozen years. It is an exceptional achievement and she brings joy to millions. I am not about to shit on that.

[rubato]

You are a human gifted with reason by nature or god as you prefer. Surely you can understand that having, or not, a hit record does not qualify or disqualify your opinion ? Try harder.

[Econoline]

The first rule of the Dunning-Kruger club is you don’t know you’re a member of the Dunning-Kruger club.

— David Dunning

[Joe Guy]

Btw - welcome back, rubato. I’ve missed your never ending gregariousness and always jovial presence.

This place is not the same without you.

[Jarlaxle]

So you have never had a hit record either moron ?

Punk and ugly at it. Cornholer.

Go fuck a hay bale you’ll look less stupid.

That's even less coherent. Sober up.

[PMS Princess]

I will admit I've never heard any of her music on the radio. (She might be too young to know what one is.)

Don't worry, the radio certainly knows who she is. From waaaaayyyy back in ancient times (January):

‘Anti-Hero’ Becomes Taylor Swift’s Longest-Running No. 1 Single, With Eight Weeks on Top

By Chris Willman

“Anti-Hero” has officially become Taylor Swift’s biggest single to date by at least one metric: It’s topped the Billboard Hot 100 now for eight non-consecutive weeks. That’s one more than the seven weeks her previous leader in that ranking, “Blank Space,” managed back in 2014-15.

“What on earth — I love you guys,” Swift wrote to fans in a social media message reposting the Billboard news about her breaking her personal record at the top of the Hot 100.

She also added a postscript about SZA, the artist with whom she is sharing adjacent spaces at the top of both the album and singles charts right now. “PS — Been listening to SZA’s album nonstop. Absolutely adore her music. So much love and respect for her!” That’s an acknowledgement of an apparently friendly chart rivalry at the moment (or at least friendly between the artists, if not all fans): On the Hot 100, a SZA single is currently No. 2 to Swift’s No. 1, while their roles are reversed in the top two spots of the Billboard 200 album rankings.

In all, Swift has had nine songs reach No. 1 over the years, all of them since 2012. Besides “Anti-Hero” and “Blank Space,” she’s had chart-toppers with “Shake It Off” (four weeks at No. 1), “Look What You Made Me Do” and “We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together” (three weeks each at the top) and “All Too Well (Taylor’s Version),” “Willow,” “Cardigan” and “Bad Blood” (each enjoying a single week at No. 1).

Some of the songs that would be considered Swift’s most iconic numbers stalled short of No. 1 on the chart for one reason or another, including “Love Story,” an early smash that only made it to No. 4 despite being ultimately certified eight-times platinum. “You Belong With Me” and “I Knew You Were Trouble” both share the honor of having been stopped at No. 2 and each going seven-times platinum. “Wildest Dreams” went four-times platinum but only got to No. 5.

With the “Midnights” album, Swift flipped the script on the typical album rollout pattern and did not release any singles, or even a tease of a song, prior to the moment the full album was released in October. At the moment the album hit, it wasn’t entirely clear what, if any, smashes the album might generate, with videos for both “Bejeweled” and “Anti-Hero” arriving during release week. Even Variety‘s rave review pondered “who knows?” in speculating that “Anti-Hero” might — but also might not — become a breakout single. But what initially seemed like a self-deprecating peculiarity in Swift’s discography, with bloggers everywhere debating whether the “sexy baby” line was cringe or hilarious, quickly took off as one of the chant-along hits of the year.

One thing putting a big distance between “Anti-Hero” and other recent Swift songs is how readily radio took to it, with the tune now enjoying its fourth week at No. 1 on Billboard’s Radio Songs chart. (It also remains on top of the Digital Song Sales chart, and is at No. 5 on Streaming Songs after having previously topped that chart as well.)

The singles from her more acoustically inclined “Folklore” and “Evermore” albums may have been streaming fan favorites, and as indicated above, “Cardigan” and “Willow” both made it to No. 1, as did the re-recorded version of the somber “All Too Well” that followed, but none of those was particularly well-suited production-wise for hit radio. Swift’s and Jack Antonoff’s more electronic take with “Anti-Hero” was more in the pocket — even if, lyrically and thematically, it still counts as peculiar (and, apparently, welcomely so) in the top 40 format.

Swift and SZA have traded compliments in recent weeks, even as their respective fans have seen them as being in competition for the charts’ respective top spots. Both artists have released digital variations on their albums or singles that have boosted consumption for their releases.

Tweeted SZA on Jan. 5, “Uhh I feel silly that I even have to say this but I see supporters arguing and I hate that,” SZA tweeted. “I don’t have beef w ANYONE especially not Taylor lmao. I genuinely loved her album and the writing! Everyone’s jus tryna do their BEST as we all should. LOVE TO EVERYONE. Gn.” (This followed a tweet that “there’s 1 minute left in the tracking week thank you for STREAMING SOS and copping digitals,” a message that many took as encouragement to help her beat Swift’s numbers.)

SZA’s “SOS” is currently No. 1 on the album chart for a fifth straight week, with Swift’s “Midnights” at No. 2; the latter album spent its first five weeks on the chart at No. 1 as well. On the Hot 100, “Anti-Hero” is now followed by SZA’s “Kill Bill” at No. 2.

Source: Variety, cause it's the entertainment biz

Nothing against her as a person. She seems quite sincere and genuine. Pleasant and sweet- natured to a fault But with no artistic value of any kind. She raises vacuous to new heights.

Astonishing.

Yrs,
Rubato

Really? How many Number 1 hits have *you* had?

Not that popularity is necessarily the mark of "artistic value," but as I said in the other Taylor Swift thread:

As a rule, pop is not big-A Art, it is craft; where one draws the line can be debated, but no one ever accused Taylor Swift albums of being high-minded explorations of big questions -- and they are not meant to be. That she has found a market for catchy hooks and sappy/simple/banal lyrics in 12-to-25-year-old girls is thoroughly unsurprising and says next to nothing about "the culture" except that Taylor Swift is totally dialed in to the emotions of that particular demographic, where she very consciously aims her songs, regardless of how autobiographical they appear to be.

***

There is absolutely nothing wrong with well-crafted pop songs and dance music.

Sue, The Dead Milkmen was one wild show when I caught them with Mojo Nixon and Skid Roper in Palo Alto many years ago. Lot's of blow up sheep, beer, and bras flying around the stage. I can still hear everybody in unison, "Bitchin' Camaro!, Bitchin' Camaro! Donuts on the lawn!" I still have the t-shirt.

[Sue U]

Sue, The Dead Milkmen was one wild show when I caught them with Mojo Nixon and Skid Roper in Palo Alto many years ago. Lot's of blow up sheep, beer, and bras flying around the stage. I can still hear everybody in unison, "Bitchin' Camaro!, Bitchin' Camaro! Donuts on the lawn!" I still have the t-shirt.

Bitchin' Camaro is a funny song and the Milkmen are a fun time. It's been decades since I've seen them but they're still around, kinda; they just played a show Fourth of July weekend at Laurel Hill Cemetery, where Maj. Gen. Meade is buried. (A friend invited me but I couldn't go, I was hosting my family's annual BBQ.) They were merchandising geniuses: I still see people wearing their T-shirts.

ETA:

Oh hai, apparently they put a new album (?) out in June. http://www.deadmilkmen.com/