Israel at War

[Sue U]

From Charlotte Clymer, one of my favorite Twitter follows, because obviously.

In the Pocket of Big Civilian
Yep, I'm a sellout.

CHARLOTTE CLYMER
NOV 9, 2023

“Pick a side. You’re either with us or against us.”

Okay, if that’s your ultimatum, if you’re claiming there’s no nuance or space here for the suffering of everyone, if you’re giving me only two choices, if I must pick a side, then I’ll just say that I’m absolutely against you.

I’m against any person or group who attempts to justify intentionally murdering innocent civilians and then shames anyone who doesn’t just go along with it.

I am in the pocket of Big Civilian.

Israeli civilians, Palestinian civilians, Muslim civilians, Jewish civilians, agnostic and atheist civilians, insufferably nihilist civilians, young civilians and old civilians, civilians in pre-school and civilians going through a midlife crisis and civilians in their golden years, civilians who like me and civilians who don’t, civilians I like and civilians I don’t, civilians who stand on the left side of the escalator and civilians who switch lanes without using a turn signal, civilians of any nationality and race and ethnicity, civilians who support LGBTQ equality and civilians who are anti-LGBTQ extremists, civilians who speak twenty languages and civilians who struggle with just the one, civilians who are chill neighbors and civilians who run the local homeowners association, civilians who have eclectic tastes in their television programming and civilians whose entire personality revolves around their Sopranos fandom, civilians who disagree entirely with my politics and civilians who mirror mine perfectly…

I am a huge, neoliberal sellout for the safety and dignity and respect of ALL civilians.

So, when I say that Hamas is an antisemitic terrorist group that needs to be destroyed, it’s because I care about ALL civilians they’re brutally murdering, Israeli and Palestinian, Muslim and Jewish, alike.

And when I say that Benjamin Netanyahu is a terrible, fascist, incompetent head-of-state and that the current Israeli government needs to stop its indiscriminate violence against innocents, it’s because I care about ALL civilians in Gaza whose lives are at stake.

I want a temporary ceasefire not because Hamas shouldn’t be destroyed—they absolutely should—but because the current Israeli government has been inexplicably floundering in their military operations.

If these sentiments somehow mean I’m either anti-Palestinian or anti-Israeli, then I guess I’ll just have to live with that.

I want the slaughter of civilians to stop, however naïve and Pollyannish that may come across to some.

And truthfully, I am deeply skeptical and wary of anyone who somehow feels this conflict is easily framed for the benefit of only one side.

If anything, it’s been a revealing moment on the question of whom among grown adults are willing to engage with reason and empathy and whom among us are far too eager to abdicate those qualities for brief—and ultimately empty—comfort from their inherent cognitive dissonance in justifying the murder of innocents.

If you feel the same about all this, please know you’re not alone. It’s truly a dark moment for acknowledging obvious humanity, senselessly replaced with a team sports mentality.

And I refuse to go along with it.

[Jarlaxle]

Another useful idiot.

[Econoline]

Israel's two wars
One is bloody but justified, the other is lower-key and wrong

MATTHEW YGLESIAS
NOV 2, 2023
[...]
One problem, I think, is that while Israel is waging a just war in Gaza, they are in parallel waging an unjust war in the West Bank. This second war is much less spectacular, much more of a slow burn, and at the moment, is causing much less death and destruction to innocent civilians. That these two wars — one just but spectacularly deadly, one unjust but lower-key — are playing out in tandem is contributing to a confused and polarized debate over a set of issues that were already quite fraught. It also, in my view, greatly complicates the question of the right policy response for the United States of America. As a matter of pure-position taking, I think it’s easy to say that the right stance is “Hamas is bad, it is correct to make war on them, but the ongoing colonization of the West Bank is also bad and Israel ought to halt and partially reverse it.” But I don’t know that foreign countries can actually craft a policy that makes that outcome any more likely.
[...]

^^^^[link to the whole essay in the headline, above]

[Big RR]

Nice post Sue; thanks.

[Burning Petard]

Temporary cease fire-- you got it. Fours hours daily, Time to get lunch, let the artillery cool off, do some maintenance on the rockets, check the radio transmitters on the drones. All sides appreciate the daily break. Go back to the killing more efficiently for all sides.

snailgate.

[BoSoxGal]

https://youtu.be/pJ9PKQbkJv8?si=Onj1mn1tyECrZ80b

[MajGenl.Meade]

I have difficulty wanting to share minutes with Mr. Oliver. In fact, I avoid his kind of speaking head vulgarity. Neveer mind the erudition; feel the width.

That was brilliantly sad - or sadly brilliant - or sadly hopeful . . . I don't know what. He produced a heartfelt and informative explanation, even-handed, and (I feel sure) truthful. What a pity it can't reach more than the few people who hang about late-night TV and those who discover it by chance, passed on one to another. Thanks BSG. I wish viewing this take on the conflict in Israel and Gaza was compulsory . . .

. . . that so-called " racist" cartoon . . . even more justified than it seemed a few days back.

Thanks also to Sue for previous explanatory remarks that cut through a lot of noise. Knowledge and common sense are so valuable.

[BoSoxGal]

It would be nice if they just keep exchanging hostages and prisoners until all the hostages are out, then sit down at a table somewhere and start hammering out the future. I just don't know who sits at that table.

[Sue U]

It would be nice if they just keep exchanging hostages and prisoners until all the hostages are out, then sit down at a table somewhere and start hammering out the future. I just don't know who sits at that table.

That is precisely the problem created by Netanyahu and his attempted gamesmanship with Hamas. After Oct. 7, Hamas cannot be permitted to exist, let alone act as political representation of any portion of Palestine. Yet the Palestinian Authority cannot take over administration and representation of Gaza without being seen as Israeli collaborators and puppets (even more than they already are); in an effort to shore up its own credibility, the PA has pledged that it "will not ride into Gaza on an Israeli tank." Moreover, Netanyahu just this week said out loud that he will prevent creation of a Palestinian state, which is what the hard right and religious extremist parties want (as well as "ethnic cleansing" of the territories), and he depends on their support to remain in power -- and out of prison himself. So as long as he's in government the "two-state solution" is dead. Problem is, the best and probably only guarantee of peace and security Israel could have is a functional and prosperous Palestinian state. The Palestinians need two things they currently do not have and have no immediate prospects for obtaining: legitimate representation and a counter-party willing to negotiate in good faith.

[BoSoxGal]

Netanyahu doesn’t belong at the table either, I don’t think.

Two warring parties with no legitimate leadership. It’s a truly scary situation.

[liberty]

I feel sure that you’ve seen this video it’s been on the news several times; I wish I had gotten a better copy but check out the seat of the pants as she is being forced into the SUV. Does it look like blood stains? I’ve seen that pattern before in Job corps. I suspect she was anally raped; I thought the Muslims drew a hardline on that and executed people for it, or perhaps it is different if you rape a Jew. I suspect she will never return from captivity; Hamas doesn’t want her telling her story.

Caveat: I could be wrong; all I have to work with is a video and a negative opinion of human nature.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/1 ... el-vpx.cnn

[MajGenl.Meade]

An unpleasant post, majoring on sensational maundering.

I suggest lib, that the back of my pants would look exactly like that if I'd just been kidnapped and cable-tied by Hamas. Yours too perhaps.

[BoSoxGal]

Just parking this here for anyone interested in the long read: The Netanyahu doctrine: how Israel’s longest-serving leader reshaped the country in his image

[liberty]

An unpleasant post, majoring on sensational maundering.

I suggest lib, that the back of my pants would look exactly like that if I'd just been kidnapped and cable-tied by Hamas. Yours too perhaps.

Sorry Meade sometimes the world is ugly and it’s not much can do about it. Certainly, putting your hands over ears and closing your eyes and screaming nah Nah Nah Nah until it goes away is not going to change anything. Maybe it is poop instead of blood if it is does it really matter it’s still a way to dehumanize your enemy. If it was rape would Hamas court martial the offender and punish him; I don’t think so.

Eyewitness account of Hamas gang-raping woman at music festival – The Forward

“They bent her over and I realized they were raping her and simply passing her on to the next,” the witness told investigators from the police department’s Lahav 433 National Crime Unit. The victim was “alive,” the witness continued, “on her feet and bleeding from her back.” She was murdered by a man who pulled her long brown hair, then “shot her in the head while he was raping her, didn’t even lift his pants.”

[MajGenl.Meade]

Sorry Meade sometimes the world is ugly and it’s not much can do about it.

There's a difference between acknowledging the existence of shit and enjoying playing in it.
I know the difference. You on the other hand . . .

[BoSoxGal]

Just now watching the opening hour of my news show, spent the morning with my head in the sand. The NYT reporting that Israel knew all about the details of the attack for a year??!! WTF???? Waiting to hear more details but horrified. And of course they're killing each other again, too.

Somebody needs to take out Netanyahu. ASAP. The Israeli people, please. The democratic way. ASAP, ASAP, ASAP!

https://apnews.com/article/new-york-tim ... 9b5b819308

[Scooter]

I have said all along that I found it incredible that Israeli intelligence completely missed this, especially since a lot of the planning could be found on the internet if you knew where to look.

[MajGenl.Meade]

I think "knew all about" may be a bit strong, implying that the Israeli defense establishment knew exactly when it would take place and purposely allowed it to happen.

It's rather more like 9/11 isn't it? All the signs were there but were not read properly - believed - hubris and all that??? Maybe.

The sublink within BSG's linked article showing the Hummus (cDrumpf) practice assault videos is damning but intelligence services have dismissed or neglected this kind of info as long as there have been intelligence services. Heads should and must roll, starting at the very top

I prefer to think that Israel (even Netyahoo) did not deliberately permit the assault to occur.

[Sue U]

All the signs were there but were not read properly - believed - hubris and all that???

***

I prefer to think that Israel (even Netyahoo) did not deliberately permit the assault to occur.

Yes, hubris. The information was available and was presented, but Netanyahu could not believe Hamas would attack as long as he was paying them off.

[Scooter]

I'm cynical enough to wonder if they knew it was coming and planned to use it just as they have been, to attack Gaza and the West Bank while avoiding most condemnation from the rest of the world by playing the victim.