How very courageous of her...

[Scooter]

... to risk an imaginary punishment for a non-existent crime.

[Big RR]

I'd love to see that jail. A denial of reality jail? I guess she would be forced to stand in an open field and say she is surrounded by prison bars?

[Sue U]

If they can do it to Donald Trump JK Rowling they can do it to you!

(Narrator: "They" can't do "it" to either.)

[MajGenl.Meade]

I'd love to see that jail. A denial of reality jail? I guess she would be forced to stand in an open field and say she is surrounded by prison bars?

Shorely shome mistake? Wouldn't "she be forced to stand in an open field and say they are surrounded by prison bars"?

[Burning Petard]

I am baffled. Short of everybody wearing "My pronouns are . . . ." badges, how am I to know? I have no problem doing what ever 'they' want, if they will only inform me. I do stumble sometimes with an on-line friend who appears very female, but told me she was a they. Actually I like they and their in general writing situations where it is desirable to keep the gender and number vague. But the problem of offensive strangers is weird. Aren't strangers, by definition, ignorant of your personal desires? Besides, JK Rowling has made of career of being weird and offensive.

snailgate

[Bicycle Bill]

No matter how many people may claim this is a duck —

— it is  NOT  a duck.

And it's the same with male and female, regardless of how mixed up you are in your own mind.

-"BB"-

[Big RR]

I am baffled. Short of everybody wearing "My pronouns are . . . ." badges, how am I to know? I have no problem doing what ever 'they' want, if they will only inform me. I do stumble sometimes with an on-line friend who appears very female, but told me she was a they. Actually I like they and their in general writing situations where it is desirable to keep the gender and number vague. But the problem of offensive strangers is weird. Aren't strangers, by definition, ignorant of your personal desires? Besides, JK Rowling has made of career of being weird and offensive.

snailgate

BP--absent a person telling you which pronouns (s)he prefers, I guess you'll have to rely on visual cues or the gender the name is ordinarily associated with. But if a person expresses a preference for one or the other pronoun, etiquette would expect you to comply with it. And, FWIW, why wouldn't you? To avoid the jail Rowling decries (and which does not exist)? Or just because it is good manners to call someone the name/label they prefer. Kind of like the maestro on Seinfeld.

[Crackpot]

No matter how many people may claim this is a duck —

— it is  NOT  a duck.

And it's the same with male and female, regardless of how mixed up you are in your own mind.

-"BB"-

You mid-read that is a cluck

[Scooter]

You see Bill, you might be called an antediluvian throwback for expressing your trans hating bigotry (because that's what you are, and that's what it is), but no one is going to put you in jail for it, because being a trans hating bigot isn't a crime. So if you were to say that you're willing to risk jail for your trans hating bigotry, that would make you an attention seeker trying to paint yourself as a victim.

Is the light bulb going on yet?

[rubato]

Refusing to adopt and believe ideas which you think foolish is not hating anything. If trans people cannot cope with simple disagreement with greater civility and reason then this is evidence for of their own derangement and confusion.


Yrs,
Rubato

[Scooter]

Trans people are already being labeled as deranged and confused for expressing their own gender identity. That isn't "simple disagreement", that is condemnation and derision, and it certainly doesn't deserve to be accorded civility and reason.

All of which is beside the point, which is that Rowling is once again inventing out of whole cloth in order to make herself into a victim for the adulation of her followers.

[Bicycle Bill]

All of which is beside the point, which is that Rowling is once again inventing out of whole cloth in order to make herself into a victim for the adulation of her followers.

Scooter, may I direct your attention to this article?   How about this CNN article from back in 2019?   Or maybe you'd like to read this one, about a court ruling earlier this year with regard to a disagreement that first surfaced as far back as 2017?

These came up in the top ten results returned when I did a ten-second Google search for "persons fired for refusing to use preferred pronouns".  So while there may not be a law, as in chapter, section, and paragraph in a state's judicial code, you can see from the cited articles (and I'm sure there are literally fuck-tons more out there) that there are already actions being taken against people who don't buy into the 'my pronouns are xe / xem / xir (or is it 'xyr'?)' or 'I identify as a ________' hubbub, and it only appears to be getting more and more prevalent   I believe the common terms for something like this are 'nibbled to death by ducks' or 'standing on a slippery slope' — and it looks like that's just where we're standing now.

Now these might be cases of someone being discharged under provisions of 'employment at will' and the discharged person seized upon this as the reason for their removal, but the fact remains is that none of these were 'invented out of whole cloth' by Ms Rowling.  About the only thing she might be guilty of is the use of hyperbole — and if you convict and condemn her for that, you also have to convict and condemn at least half the population of this country (and almost every member of Congress, the various state legislatures, and what now passes as the news media).

-"BB"-

[Burning Petard]

BB, I worked for 39 years under an employment contract, with four different employers, that stated I could be fired at any time, with no notice or warning or grace period, for any reason or no reason at all. A newspaper headline or even second lead does not mean 'wrong pronouns' was the actual reason for ending the employment. It could well be the excuse the employer used because "they would not give me a blow job' was not as acceptable in the local community.

snailgate.

[rubato]

Rowling has done what is required as a moral person and public intellectual by telling the truth as she understands it. The hatred poured out on her, a person with a long record of liberal and compassionate thoughts is amazing. Staggering. The hate is 100% coming from the bullshit trans community. They are the ones filled with bile and nonsense.

Yrs,
Rubato

[Bicycle Bill]

Snail, if you look at the first sentence of the third paragraph in my response you'll see that I did acknowledge that fact — and for the record, with the exception of the time when I was employed by the UW System, I was also under similar contracts for most of my working career as well, so I know all about 'at-will employment' policy.   But in the last link I cited, it seems that this WAS the reason the teacher was let go and neither side denied it.   And the plethora of similar cases and claims all across the country would seem to prove that 'you will use the preferred pronouns or else' is being enforced, at least at a grass-roots level.  

Or do you claim that ALL of these incidents, each and every one, was a case of the employee being let go for some other reason — dishonesty, drug use, poor job performance, wearing a T-shirt for a football team other than the boss's favorite — and that each and every one of the discharged employees came up with this same excuse about not using cockamamie pronouns as being the reason they were shown the door?

-"BB"-

[datsunaholic]

There's a big difference between being fired (for not following company policy) and being jailed.

One can get fired for a LOT of things that aren't illegal.

Insisting on using pronouns someone has told you they don't want to use is harassment. It is no different than the guy at work who was fired for calling (most) of the women "sweetheart". He was told, both by his boss and HR, to stop doing so. He didn't stop. He wasn't fired for saying it once. He was fired for not following a company mandate. But it wasn't criminal. he wasn't arrested.

I suppose some of you have never had the experience of being addressed by a name you don't want to be used. I have. And for me, it makes me angry when someone continues to call me that when I have said to their face I don't want to be called that. But in my case it's just a diminutive nickname that I absolutely abhor and have ever since grade school... it's not someone specifically denying a core facet of who I am.

As far as I know, no one has been jailed for using the wrong pronouns, which is why Rowling's statement is simply attention seeking/playing the victim in which she hasn't been victimized at all. Just like Scott Adams, she IS losing popularity due to her own set of views. Nothing illegal... just a case of being too bigoted to change with the times.

[Big RR]

Agreed Datsun; a number of yearas back I was on a corporate committee that investigated sexual harassment complaints. One I recall was this "touchy feely" sort of guy who was a manger and was always touching his female (never male) subordinates in a nonsexual way (holding their hands, putting his arm around me, etc.; never anything like fondling or sexual touching, but still a touching that was unwelcome). For the life of me, I thought the guy was just a bit of a clod and meant nothing by it, but he continued doing it and making the women who worked for him feel uncomfortable, even after being warned more than once. He was eventually discharged. Whether the touching would arise to a criminal level of assault/battery is questionable, but he could not be retained--people have a right to set boundaries in the workplace. The same is true for the use of pronouns and calling people what they choose to be called. It's not that hard to do, even if you don't like it.

FWIW, I recall early in my career working for a boss who would come in to talk to you at your desk and just stand behind you massaging your shoulders and neck. I don't think there was anything sexual about it, but we tolerated it and coped by joking about it and wagering whoa would get the massage on a given day. In those days behavior like that was more or less accepted (even though it was likely not "legal", but thankfully we have moved being that to some degree. The workplace is difficult enough, you shouldn't have to put up with that sort of behavior. Ditto for not being called what you prefer.

[MajGenl.Meade]

One I recall was this "touchy feely" sort of guy who was a manger

Away with him!

[Big RR]

[rubato]

It should not require courage to express an opinion. The moron left feel otherwise

Yrs,
Rubato