It can’t be done accidentally

[liberty]

I can’t remember who said it or where I read it, and I tried to ignore it; I am too busy refurbishing a house to be rented out. But I just couldn’t do it. It is absolute historical pollution; it is blasphemy against history and the enemy of reason.

The Sub-Saharan Africans did not have an independent iron age. They did not have a Bronze Age; they supposedly went directly from the Stone Age to the Iron Age which can’t be done accidentally. One can accidentally discover copper and gold and tin, but not iron. One can’t do it unless one knows metals exist. The man, and it was most likely a man, who discovered iron did not do it by accident; he was looking for a metal. Without a metal age, bronze or otherwise the knowledge of iron making had to come from the outside.

[BoSoxGal]

I hope Scooter logs in today . . .

[MajGenl.Meade]

Who cares?

[Burning Petard]

Did any Geographic area have anything independent? Perhaps I will make an exception for Australia. Perhaps China did have an independent firecracker age.

I thnk Genl Meade asks the more important question.

snailgate.

[Joe Guy]

Which raises the question.... Did non-iron clothing exist before iron?

[liberty]

Who cares?

Meade says, who cares? I care because I care about the truth. The truth matters enough to me that I will sacrifice for it. Recently I noticed there was an extra eight hours in my pay file that I had not worked and was not entitled to; what did I do? Did I keep my mouth shut and take the money or did I send a text message to my boss so the error could be fixed? If you have any doubts, you don’t know me; of course, I informed my boss about the oversight and denied myself the money. The truth does matter.

If you think that iron can be accidentally discovered, check out the iron bloom method of making iron. it was the only way to make iron in the West until the Middle Ages, and I think you will agree, if you’re an honest person, that it could not be discovered by accident.

And yes, I know that the Chinese did have liquid iron a thousand years before the West but that’s another story.

Watch this guy processed bloom into iron. Remember bloom is just the second stage of iron making; you first have to make the bloom. Notice how the bloom doesn’t look like it’s anything useful. And remember ancient iron workers did not have the modern tools this guy has; it would have been much more work for them. I think you can understand what I’m saying; it couldn’t be done accidentally; it’s just too much work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crv17b-qc4Y

[MajGenl.Meade]

Who cares?

Meade says, who cares? I care because I care about the truth.

We all care about the truth. But no one cares about your post which is mainly to promote your anti-African bent.

[Burning Petard]

Mr. Liberty and Genl Meade Sir, please note however one votes on this poll, 'polls" seldom indicate truth. I think it is more the neighborhood of Stephen Cobert's 'Truthyness'.

Besides, it is all part of God's plan, including our ignorance of the obvious that God created the universe about 6000 yers ago, complete with fossils that look a million years old to us, along with evidence of the Big Bang. God can be such a practical joker.

snailgate.

[wesw]

you can absolutely discover iron accidentally

meteorites, containing iron, were discovered and used people in northern north america and in Egypt

[MajGenl.Meade]

Is Lib saying they were late bloomers?

[Joe Guy]

After doing much research, I've found a rare undated photo of what appears to be a Sub-Saharan African woman holding iron, proving that liberty may be correct about a man having discovered and having found a use for it.

[wesw]

so they didn t discover polyester either?

[Big RR]

'Lib--"Truth"? Absent going back in time and observing it, there is no way to know most things for certain, only to accept what the evidence supports. And, absent serious scientific dispute, I am much more willing to accept the opinions of most archeologists about an iron age existing in sub-saharan Africa. Sure, there's always a few outliers, but most scholars believe that there was--people who are trained to interpret the evidence and people who have observed that evidence first-hand. I am perfectly content to accept their opinions as opposed to yours, Lib (just as I am with the conclusions about other iron ages among other cultures in Europe and Asia).

[Scooter]

Previously posted here. Emphasis is added in this version.

Iron metallurgy in Africa

Iron metallurgy in Africa developed within Africa; though initially assumed to be of external origin, this assumption has been rendered untenable; archaeological evidence has increasingly supported an indigenous origin. Some recent studies date the inception of iron metallurgy in Africa between 3000 BCE and 2500 BCE. Archaeometallurgical scientific knowledge and technological development originated in numerous centers of Africa; the centers of origin were located in West Africa, Central Africa, and East Africa; consequently, as these origin centers are located within inner Africa, these archaeometallurgical developments are thus native African technologies.

Iron metallurgical development occurred 2631 BCE – 2458 BCE at Lejja, in Nigeria, 2136 BCE – 1921 BCE at Obui, in Central Africa Republic, 1895 BCE – 1370 BCE at Tchire Ouma 147, in Niger, and 1297 BCE – 1051 BCE at Dekpassanware, in Togo.[4] Evidence exists for early iron metallurgy in parts of Nigeria, Cameroon, and Central Africa, possibly from as early as around 2,000 BCE.

The invention of radiocarbon dating in the late 1950s enabled dating of metallurgical sites by the charcoal fuel used for smelting and forging. By the late 1960s some surprisingly early radiocarbon dates had been obtained for iron smelting sites in both Niger and central Africa (Rwanda, Burundi), reviving the view that iron-making was independently invented by Africans in sub-Saharan Africa as far back as 3600 BCE. These dates preceded the known antiquity of ironworking in Carthage or Meroe, weakening the diffusion hypothesis.

As is usually the case, I did not participate in the poll because "the village idiot is a moron" was not an option.

[liberty]

Who cares?

Meade says, who cares? I care because I care about the truth.

We all care about the truth. But no one cares about your post which is mainly to promote your anti-African bent.

That is a liberal way of thinking; the truth is not anti-anybody; it is just the truth. It is always better to know an ugly truth than to believe in a pretty lie, because a lie is worthless. I am not anti-Africa; I wish them well. I hope they reach their potential; however, I don’t think they will do it as long as they have such a high level of corruption. If the sub-Saharan Africans need things to make them feel better about themselves, a boost to their ego, use the truth, because a lie is a very rotten foundation for anything.

[Big RR]

the truth is not anti-anybody

If your assertion were the truth, you may have a point, but it is a assertion against the general consensus of most archeological scholars who have observed the evidence first hand, and you present no evidence for your position other than an unsupported assertion that their opinion cannot be true. You can believe what you want, but I can't see it as the "truth" or even anything resembling the truth.

[MajGenl.Meade]

If the sub-Saharan Africans need things to make them feel better about themselves, a boost to their ego, use the truth

You genuinely (I hope) have not a clue how strongly that statement reeks of white supremacist attitudes.

[Bicycle Bill]

so they didn t discover polyester either?

The Nauga (an early ancestor of polyester) is not native to Africa.

-"BB"-

[Joe Guy]

It takes a skilled hunter to trap them because it's difficult to locate where the Nauga hide.

[MajGenl.Meade]

It takes a skilled hunter to trap them because it's difficult to locate where the Nauga hide.

Are we still allowed to say 'nauga'?

(It was one of lib's)